Wednesday, February 23, 2011

Sony's New Improved Super Anti-Piracy Plan!!!

See here and here. Basically the plan is to hire more two more lawyers...which is like hiring more rappers to get your yacht built faster.

Everyone knows that after Napster was sued out of existence, CD sales have been through the roof. It's impossible to find an illegal copy of a song anywhere. And after DeCSS and 09 F9 were successfully sued off the internet, it's super hard to decrypt movies and they all are 100% legal. Due to the huge success of big media's legal departments, every time I want to watch a movie, I drive down to my local neighborhood Blockbuster and fork over $5.95

Nah, the truth is, those cases did shit all but put money into some lawyers pockets, and gave you technophobic CEOs talking points at worthless board meetings. What actually happened is things like the iTunes store, Netflix, FiOS TV, and Hulu showed up. Some companies innovated instead of litigated. Some companies thought outside the box. Some companies actually did something for their customers. And succeeded big time.

I see a lot of parallels with the "War on Drugs". Most people, me included, admit drugs are a problem, but this whole idea of tackling it with the legal system has never worked and will never work. When you shut down a drug ring...another pops up, and the street price remains the same. When you shut down a piracy ring...another pops up, and content remains just as free. Sometimes a drug user is made an example of. Does everyone put down the crack pipe? Of course not. Sometimes a college student who downloaded 30 songs is made an example of. Does everyone run to the nearest Tower Records? Of course not.

This is not a battle that can be won in the courts. The pirates and the drug smugglers will always be one step ahead, the only way to beat them is to think outside the box. And the legal system is as inside the box as you can think.

PlayStation LifeStyle is calling the lawyers "security professionals"
Yea, and T-Pain has a degree in nautical engineering...I mean, he was on a boat

If you want some intelligent opinions on piracy, this, this, this, and this.
And just in case you want unintelligent fearmongering, click here or here.


Blogger George Hotz said...

Even worse, it looks like Sony is trying to start a campaign of fear(they even mentioned fear in their blog post). That was tried with drugs too. Here's simply why it doesn't work. Sure people watched Reefer Madness, but after watching their friends smoke, they concluded that it's just FUD. And then they just became completely distrustful of the news source, even if it made some valid points.

February 23, 2011 at 3:12 AM  
Blogger Requisite said...

It makes me wonder if these CEO's or whoever is responsible for calling the shots actually thinks posturing like this will work? Then again, posturing works for FOX News and politicians, regardless of how wrong they are...

February 23, 2011 at 4:28 AM  
Blogger gili said...

When's the next jailbreak geo

February 23, 2011 at 4:33 AM  
Blogger Austin said...

George, I love reading your remarks. Your arguments are founded on reason and exhibit a mental acuity beyond your years. I, along with my fellow writers at iTD, wish you the best of luck and offer our support as you face SCEA to set a precedent for customer rights. God bless.

February 23, 2011 at 4:48 AM  
Blogger GenralTOW said...

George I think they are preparing them to never do the same errors in the future...

Don't give up, France is with you !


February 23, 2011 at 4:51 AM  
Blogger Nick said...

I will support you, geohot, whatever the odds are. I will donate, I will promote and we will prevail.

February 23, 2011 at 6:14 AM  
Blogger webmaster said...

A thing I would really like to know is:
Did SONY really assumed the playstation was "unhackable"?
Did they really think no one would be smart enough to find the weak points of their system?

In fact they should feel good cause it took pretty long time to beat it and now their fault is that from now on they will always try to fight the symptome...

They first did it when removing other os which they assumed would be the weakest point for their system - turned out they we´re causing the next step:
Attention from some good hackers and now their aim was the whole system!

With every step they´ll take from now on they will make things worse.
More lawyers = more people getting suede = more media attention = more people who know about a hack = more people who are in it only for piracy = MORE PIRACY
And in the origin they were doing all this to prevent this...

Well try to fight fire with gasoline... good luck. not.

February 23, 2011 at 6:53 AM  
Blogger retroactive said...

A-fucking-men. About the drug war though, top people in the government know that it will never stop drugs. It's just rogue elements within count on it to make the prices high. If it wasn't for the drug war the CIA would never have been a self sustaining entity. Half of the crap they pull is funded with dirty coke money and on the backs of addicts... there is more to it though and that's for a whole different discussion. I get the comparison though and there really are dumbasses that believe it's there for your best interests... that it's really helping and not harming.

It amazes me, still, that people can be tricked into supporting something that is against their best interests. Anymore freedom is becoming a dirty word, and in the future people who use it or allude to it will be spat upon and this goes far beyond a mere fun box. Stand tall geo you are in the right.

February 23, 2011 at 8:50 AM  
Blogger dave said...

Agree 100% apart from i smoke cannabis but meh thats a different story, but about companies thinking outside the box, like bbc and ch4 (uk tv channels) i dont watch tv, but downloaded certain shows i like, now they have iplayer and 4on demand i use them instead, everyones a winner, iv never really been a fan of Ms but you have to give them some props with regard to xna and now the kinect sdk, why go against the grain and upset the people that pay your wage is beyond me

anyways all the best from uk

February 23, 2011 at 9:08 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

On the "War on Drugs" parallel (it is a good one), I don't know anywhere I can buy "bathtub gin" nor can I find a "speak-easy" these days. Prohibition didn't work and only lead to more crime. Yes, underage drinking is a problem, but do you think a speak-easy was checking ID?

As a teen, pot was more readily available than alcohol to me. I didn't smoke it because of personal choice, but had several friends that did. Pushers don't check ID either. Legalization puts controls in place and outright ban only does two things, makes it look more tempting (the first time I smoked pot was out of curiosity about why it was so "bad", the second time was because the first made me realize the lie.) and take away controls. Pot, IMHO, is only illegal because of the perceived difficulty in regulation and control(it's easy to grow). Tobacco should be just as hard to control(it can be grown as well, just not quite as easily), but people don't grow their own because they have a legal alternative.

February 23, 2011 at 9:18 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Also on MS, anyone heard of XLIG? Easy enough for an indie dev to get in the game. (Few hundred$ for MS versus thousands with Sony) Just as easy to get into the mobile phone market thanks to Android.

February 23, 2011 at 9:22 AM  
Blogger Ramzi by friends and Khairi by family said...

i hope you loose dude. you may not promote piracy but you are making it POSSIBLE for people to pirate ps3 games.

February 23, 2011 at 9:36 AM  
Blogger lcuciuic said...

geohot why u no JB 3.56? make sony MORE mad! :)

February 23, 2011 at 11:13 AM  
Blogger Avais said...

I support you Geo.May you win this war .Pakistan is with you on this.Sony has crossed the line and its sad to see its you they are targeting and dont listen to people who say you should loose since they just dont have the mental caliber to think outside the box and beyond a certain extent.In the end if Allah forbid you do loose all these haters will eventually realize that they backing the wrong horse.

February 23, 2011 at 11:21 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

And ISP may not encourage it, but they are promoting it by providing bandwidth for distribution to pirates. If I post a guide to lock-picking, and someone uses it to break into a store and steal from it, am I responsible? This is essentially the same thing on digital terms. These type of "hacks" have other uses besides piracy. If I sold you a car then later took away the radio(which was listed in the ad for the car) that was in it and said, "Sorry, but it was only supposed to be for music, but you modified it to act as a CB Radio." Would you be pissed? This is essentially what pissed off the hackers.

I personally am against piracy, but I would rather have hackers/cheaters/programmers/crackers/pirates around than to have corporations thinking they can take back at their will anything I've bought from them digital or otherwise.

February 23, 2011 at 11:24 AM  
Blogger Kai said...

@ Ramzi The Piracy Myth

None of george's code or tools allow pirated software to be run on the PS3. Piracy was enabled on the PS3 months before george released anyhing, via the PSJailbreak dongle + clones.

Not george. Please stop proliferating this misinformation.

February 23, 2011 at 12:27 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

Kai that's something I didn't understand either. Piracy was enabled long ago on the ps3 with the psjailbreak dongle, or the various payloads that ran off of android phones and iphones... so how can george be singled out when his firmware could not run backups 'out of the box'? It doesn't matter to people, especially facts. Some keep insisting George was behind the jailbreak dongle haha. What people should realize is before Geo's jailbreak there was already piracy, and there were already cheaters. I think people just don't like him... because it's something to do and they can have someone to blame other than the cheaters themselves. Much harder for them to track down a cheater than to find a scapegoat.

February 23, 2011 at 12:56 PM  
Blogger John Kurt said...

I was just thinking of getting a PS3, now I'm hesitant. Get one and do what I want to it, or spite them more an not get one at all (no money to them). Thoughts?

February 23, 2011 at 12:59 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

If you get one, get a used one. Then they don't get your money, just the sucker who originally bought it and paid them. If you must buy Sony, buy used from private seller.

February 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

There's no 3.56 JB because that would be illegal for me to do at this time. Rest assured that when this battle is over, such measures will be investigated.

February 23, 2011 at 1:15 PM  
Blogger jetglenn said...

If I bought something "legally" from a store (of course with receipt) with my hard-earned money and brought it home with me then it's mine. I can do whatever I want with it without anyone telling me otherwise and Hell I can disassemble it and experiment with it and learn from it in the process if I wanted to because that's exactly what I wanted to do with it. It is my property.

"PROPERTY n. anything that is owned by a person or entity. Property is divided into two types: "real property" which is any interest in land, real estate, growing plants or the improvements on it, and "personal property" (sometimes called "personalty") which is everything else."

If I bought a computer and doesn't want to use it's operating system I can remove and install my choice of operating system for it to be useful to me.

"An operating system, or OS, is a software program that enables the computer hardware to communicate and operate with the computer software. Without a computer operating system, a computer would be useless."

In 06/07/2006 Visionary and fourth-dimension traveler (in addition to Sony boss) Ken Kutaragi spoke with PC Watch and Next Generation lovingly translated his words.
Kutaragi maintains that the PS3 is more than just a game console -- it's polarizing pricepoint has caused ripples in the game industry and consumer sector -- "Speaking about the PS3, we never said we will release a game console," he said. "It is radically different from the previous PlayStation. It is clearly a computer."

February 23, 2011 at 1:17 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

And if Ken Kutaragi was still in charge, I don't think Sony would be taking such stupid actions.

February 23, 2011 at 1:19 PM  
Blogger Terrence said...

I recently had a conversation with my mom about how people our age don't fight for anything like people did back in the 70's-80's. We figured it boiled down to us people today don't have things to fight for.

Seeing things like this gives me hope that we haven't lost that passion to fight for what we believe is right. Keep it up, I'm behind you 100%.

February 23, 2011 at 1:44 PM  
Blogger kram1024 said...

@Kreationz: Good point, lock picking can be used legally by a locksmith for a premium to unlock a car that its owner accidentally locked with the keys in the ignition or to get a tenent into their own apartment when they are accidentally locked out, or it can be used illegally by a burglar to steal from someone.

TPM keys are no different. Unlocking the ps3 could spawn a crap load of creativity just as much as it could allow piracy. I for one just want a way to get my ps3 to play the authentic ps2 games I used to play on my ps2 that I purchased from gamestop, game crazy, and bought used at a movie rental shop and the ps3 to get the respect it deserves and its manufacturer fails to give it.

Big corporations quite often get greedy and want more money and more power, tend to seek out a monopoly which is what antitrust law is intended to prevent. On another subject (though it has already been posted elsewhere on this blog), Sony is getting sued for violating the CFAA by removing Other OS.

I was never told by anyone that a slim didn't have it. I was only told that PS2 support was lost, so I intended to use Other OS to get that support back, only to discover that Sony removed the feature from the slim models too, even gamestop did not know the slim models had that feature disabled.

I was hoping to play my Final Fantasy XII on my PS3 and still have Blu Ray too and Final Fantasy XIII with it as well as Final Fantasy X, Kingdom Hearts, and Kingdom Hearts II as well as Final Fantasy VII - IX.

Geohot, please win, Having either Other OS or ps2 support (through a legit means) back or at least some sort of of way to run a ps2 emulator (for legit software, not a backup) is all I ask for.

Would you buy a Blu Ray player if it couldn't play your DVD collection? I sure wouldn't.

February 23, 2011 at 1:45 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

It is stupid and a host of other words. I don't think that I can even articulate in words how disgusted I am with Sony as a whole. Sure it's split and the left hand may not know what the right is doing... but something like this will not go over looked. I was deciding what to do with the ps3 and my games, I was thinking of selling them and just donating that money to you. I enjoy it but not at the cost of ownership rights. I know for sure I will not be buying anymore sony products. If I happen across one without paying for it (like perhaps the ngp or the xperia) I'll take that opportunity and mess with it. I sure as hell don't want to put my money into sony so they can use that money to destroy ownership rights. They are destroying their image, their brand, and the trust consumers had in them.

February 23, 2011 at 1:47 PM  
Blogger Patrick said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

February 23, 2011 at 1:57 PM  
Blogger Patrick said...

Geo I wish you the BEST in all... hope everything works out fine... has anyone received an email from Playstation Network? Saying that your PS3 has circumvent things and they will remove you permantly from the PSN? Well if you do what can I do to be able to still keep using my JB and not remove it... and if I did how can I get it back to 3.55... please email me at patricka922 at gmail

February 23, 2011 at 2:03 PM  
Blogger arsenalkiller said...

Let me guess, if SONY detects you are using a CFW on PSN not only they will ban you, they can also use the "law enforcement" lol, that really passed the line, what if i like to use linux on my PS3? I guess im considering buying a Xbox

February 23, 2011 at 2:09 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

Patrick currently there is not a reliable way to downgrade from 3.56. I am on 3.55 and refuse to go to 3.56. I do not use the certificate hack because morally it's wrong. At first I thought well it's going to suck not playing online but actually I like the benefits of 3.55 more than I like playing online. It's made me realize how much I'd rather play online gaming via my custom pc rather than playing on the psn anyway. I never realized how many mouth breathing psychopaths one could encounter online until I started playing games online via consoles. I honestly don't miss it as much as I thought. If you are worried at all about psn access then make sure there is not any evidence of the jailbreak and homebrew left, format your hard drive and then update to 3.56. If you would rather have free access to your ps3 then stay on 3.55.

February 23, 2011 at 2:14 PM  
Blogger Patrick said...

Retro... I kinda need my online play and also don't I play online only w family members FIFA... is anyoning selling their ps3 cheap... lol

February 23, 2011 at 2:24 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

Well if you were already jailbroken make sure there isn't anything left over from it, reformat, and update... Just don't forget to back your saves. I can see where you like the psn I thought I used too but, it's just not worth it to me anymore. When I actually used psn I had a great net connection. It was 24 down and about 5 or 6 up... but my ps3 would lose the servers constantly, and in games like mag that means your progress you made was lost. The quality of people I come into contact with as well on psn was... off putting to say the least. Now with this crap sony is pulling, I'm done on psn for good. I was not banned (for all the haters lurking) I just can't in good conscience support sony by using and buying anything related to sony, and that includes using and spending money on the psn.

February 23, 2011 at 2:30 PM  
Blogger Patrick said...

Retro... I can see where u coming from cause also I'm in the same position... I haven't bought anything from SONY and don't plan too... I'm my 3.55 JB I had my NES SNES GENESIS game I rightfully owned... I missed that...

February 23, 2011 at 2:41 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

I understand some people still like to use psn. I think after this case is long gone and people release a 3.60+ jailbreak what will end up happening is everyone who uses it to play online via psn, will eventually be banned. Then it will be realized that constantly jailbreaking new firmwares for the ps3 is a joke just to gain psn access... and then I believe a psn alternative will spring up and all new jailbreaks will be for people who decide to switch to this psn alternative. The psn alternative community will eventual rival the size of the original psn and will lead in quality as well and there will not be a damn thing sony will be able to do about it once people make up their minds. For the time being enjoy the psn.

February 23, 2011 at 2:55 PM  
Blogger Fr33k said...

may allah protect you geo, and bring you safe to us.

February 23, 2011 at 2:56 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

Anyone here about Graf being raided?

February 23, 2011 at 3:04 PM  
Blogger John Kurt said...

Kreationz said... "buy a used one so they don't get your money." That is a great idea. Thanks. I honestly wanted a PS3 specifically so I could play FF X and other PS2 games I've missed. Of course the collective of douche-bags at Sony are screwing us on this. At least my 2 Benjamins wont make it into their pockets.

February 23, 2011 at 3:26 PM  
Blogger muj said...

Sony/Police Raids graf_chokolo House

February 23, 2011 at 3:44 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

John Kurt look on ebay. A friend of mine wanted to buy a ps3 so I told him I'd find a cheap way to get one. I went on ebay and someone had one up, he said it was for sale for parts or repair. It went partly to xmb screen but would stop and not get any further than the 'wavy lines'. Anyhow I took the hard drive out and used a hd diagnostic program, remapped bad sectors... popped the drive back in and voila problem solved. My friend now has a fully operation 80 dollar ps3. Anyway point is you can get it very cheap if you know what to look for. Just make sure you do not get one that was previously opened up. Also have you guys read that graf was raided? sony just gets more disgusting by the day.

February 23, 2011 at 3:44 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Make sure to get a "Phat" model so it will have that support for those PS2 games. I have a huge PS2 library myself (Completely Legit) and also have a hack for it. I use the hack to play Genesis titles.

February 23, 2011 at 3:48 PM  
Blogger kram1024 said...

I also have a Genesis model 2 and every sonic game made for it and use genesis plus ps3 with the rom versions of them (making the backups legal, though they still would be anyway if I didn't have them because a genesis has become public domain)

February 23, 2011 at 3:54 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

"Sony: Believe that anything you imagine, you can make real." - Sony Tagline
(but only if we get some $$$ from it.) - The rest of the story

February 23, 2011 at 3:57 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

Yes kreationz anything "Anything you imagine, you can make real" like fascism.

February 23, 2011 at 4:04 PM  
Blogger kram1024 said...

Sony: Believe that anything you imagine to make us rich at your expense, you can make real. - updated Sony Tagline

February 23, 2011 at 4:07 PM  
Blogger kram1024 said...

I say Sony needs an Motion to Go On Strike.

February 23, 2011 at 4:10 PM  
Blogger Chris said...

Loving your work George, just one thing though.. The war on drugs only exists as it keeps people in work, no other reason.

But yeah I get what your saying and yes you are right its comparable.

February 23, 2011 at 4:32 PM  
OpenID 3e7f02da-3d41-11e0-a375-000bcdcb471e said...

Do you know how it pisses me off that Sony doesn't wanna let people use their favorite Emulator on their favorite console with their favorite game that they own an actual cartridge of? For that, I hate Sony, and I will never buy any of their stupid products, it was thanks to you Geohot, that I and everyone else who jailbreaks their PS3 was finally able to run an Emulator/Homebrew on a PS3 :). I wish you luck Geohot, I hope you can beat SONY in court, and know that your efforts will not be in vain. Good luck bro.

February 23, 2011 at 4:58 PM  
Blogger aaa said...

George, do me a favor and open the donations again. I'm a 32 year old guy that games once in awhile but this case is beyong gaming and I wish everyone got it for what it is. Let me know if I can help in any way. I have donated and am ready to donate again if need be.

Brazil / NYC

February 23, 2011 at 9:22 PM  
Blogger Austin said...

Sorry to post once again, but I am starting to get fed up with the ignorance displayed by those who blame George for piracy and cheating(or any other excuse to throw the blame on him). Here are a few points everyone should know.

1) There will ALWAYS be piracy. We can either accept that and enjoy the features that hackers like geohot and failoverfl0w bring us, or silence them and watch piracy continue regardless. (Case in point: physically modded 360s that play burned games)

2) George is not responsible for cheaters. There will always be abusers of a system, regardless of what system it is. We can either enjoy the many great things that come about, or whine about the few who ruin it for all.(fun sidenote: game developers shouldn't leave their games wide open just because it's a console. A lot of effort goes into bullet-proofing PC games, why treat a PS3 differently?)

3) No amount of badgering will dissuade us from our rights, so take it somewhere else. Those who come to this blog come to support, so those who complain or throw blame around are only going to fuel the resistance that much more.

Hopefully this helps. :)

February 24, 2011 at 1:25 AM  
Blogger the unknown said...

Just wondering if:
Edelman v. N2H2

In July 2002, American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit on the behalf of Benjamin Edelman, a computer researcher at Berkman Center for Internet and Society, sought a Declaratory judgment to affirm his first amendment rights when reverse engineering the censorware product of defendant N2H2 in case he intended to publish the finding. N2H2 filed a motion to dismiss, which the court granted.

Would apply?

February 24, 2011 at 6:55 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

It would possibly apply if George had asked for a similar "Declaratory Judgment". If it were me, I would have kept the information private. Then I would have asked about publishing it to get Sony's permission. (Which no doubt would have been denied.) Then sought a "Declaratory Judgment" before actually publishing it. This would have put George in the correct legal grounds to seek said judgment.(It would satisfy the "imminence" and "extent" parts that Edelman didn't. This case would still be being argued but, George would now be the plaintiff (fighting for his right to free speech, and his consumer rights) instead of the defendant (still in the same fight, just on better legal grounds fighting to prevent the current situation), but as a side effect we wouldn't have the info we do now, which has become widely available through a simple Google search.

February 24, 2011 at 9:42 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Had he won then publishing could have occurred without being legally questionable, but some of the info might have not been able to be published or at least not published in current form.

Note:It hasn't been declared what he did was illegal or legal yet, the current proceedings are only a might be, therefore the judge has granted the TRO/seizure of equipment for evidence gathering purposes in order to determine that. I don't agree with the seizure, as anything on his hardware not on the web has not been published and should be private. I do agree with the TRO(that is legally, but I still support George in the matter), but only until the case finishes(hopefully, in his favor). This case should be about the published info and his right to do so not anything else.

February 24, 2011 at 9:51 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

BTW, if publishing encryption keys is illegal, how's does this article still remain on Wikipedia. It allows decryption as well...

Granted the keys displayed in Wikipedia are old keys and the new keys haven't been released, but Geohot's released keys are now "old" keys as well as of 3.56

February 24, 2011 at 4:23 PM  
Blogger Aaron said...

Have you read the book "The Human Factor" by Kim Vicente? Really good book, but the part this post makes me think of is the discussion of "transitional instability - turbulent and frustrating times, during which new technologies are developed, tested, found to be unsatisfactory and discarded." (pp. 40)

YOU are the source of instability in this system, and your success and popularity are indicators that we're entering a new era where the Internet is truly incorporated into society, to the detriment of the profiteers of the old system (like Sony.) Keep exploiting the system, to show that it's not patches to the exploits we need - it's a new system.

February 25, 2011 at 4:54 PM  
Blogger Siddharth said...

geohot can u hack the 3DS when it comes out lol

March 2, 2011 at 6:53 PM  
Blogger David Franklin said...

O Brasil está torcendo por vc!

March 10, 2011 at 8:42 AM  
Blogger karen said...

I dont agree with pirating, in fact, my career line of choice is in games development.
But it doesnt mean to say i would every hunt every hacker out there and sue the life outta them!
these are the people we will turn to if ever our corrupted governments achieve their goal of internet and even flippin life censorship.
you break something, we fix it and better it.. thus the technological world revolves!

March 24, 2011 at 11:05 AM  
Blogger Raruto_n said...

dale dale boca campeon man campeon vos sos el fantasma de la pley 3

March 25, 2011 at 5:32 PM  
Blogger lock2727 said...

Why doesn't some media hungry uni or lawfirm give sony the kicking it deserves and help this kid out.Being smart isn't a crime not that i'm guilty,why hasn't a company put their name behind him as he can write code better than most and would be quite the asset.No more money outa me sony,got enough toys that break of luck Mate from a aussie.

March 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM  
Blogger X said...

Aaron, spot on. Though it goes beyond simple human intervention, but the lack of essential critical thinking and dissecting skills (aka willful ignorance) that keeps the current parasitic system afloat.

"Geohot" was merely a scapegoat. Amidst the immeasurable ignorance across the Internet, no one realizes the sheer size of the problem - and the potential fact that this goes beyond what just 'one' corporation is capable of, but alas exactly the kind of subjugation we're living with. An excellent demonstration of "Corporation > Individual" in exquisite resolution.

- May the people forever know their place, and never seek to challenge authority. -

July 28, 2012 at 9:42 AM  

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