Tuesday, April 12, 2011

An Enlightening Article

Here

Haha, perhaps the boycott is working. I made NASDAQ news :)

OMG even NGT wants to join the boycott.

89 Comments:

Blogger Icestar said...

An interesting article!

Hey,do you know if they are they still going to do anything with the IP address that they gained access to?

April 12, 2011 at 6:05 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Sony did lots of unjust stuff during this whole thing no doubt. I am surprised at what happened. How is it lawful for Sony to gain access to people's IP address? This is just invading people's privacy. Also, that police raid that happened is crazy!

April 12, 2011 at 6:10 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

@Icestar "I AM ABOVE THE LAW" -- Angry Record Producer Dude on South Park

April 12, 2011 at 6:27 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

hahahaha Yeah, they do seem to think that they are above the law.

April 12, 2011 at 6:29 PM  
Blogger I Hate said...

will this agreement mean the end of jailbreaking on the ps3?
ofw 3.60 has been out for a month and still no
cfw. what do you think geohot?

April 12, 2011 at 7:01 PM  
Blogger Hugo214 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 12, 2011 at 7:16 PM  
Blogger Slasher said...

You're*

April 12, 2011 at 7:23 PM  
Blogger Hugo214 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 12, 2011 at 7:30 PM  
Blogger The Pirate Kid said...

Honestly, this is the kinda steps required to get us going... Who's next I'm pretty sure people will only realise the effect when Sony posts their profits or lack of rather...

April 12, 2011 at 7:31 PM  
Blogger Hugo214 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 12, 2011 at 7:32 PM  
Blogger Shadow said...

@Hugo214
This was never Geohot's story. He was never the hero. All he did, was pave the way for someone else to fight the good fight. Perhaps another hacker will take the torch. Eventually, if we keep at it...we someone will go up against Sony and win.

April 12, 2011 at 7:36 PM  
Blogger Hugo214 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 12, 2011 at 7:43 PM  
Blogger Hugo214 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 12, 2011 at 7:49 PM  
Blogger Renata said...

Next news: Geohot runs naked in Iceland, asking donations for cloths, just to call for attention.
Sony and geohot are two peas in a pod.
If you are boycotting Sony, it is time to boycott Geohot. I am starting now.

April 12, 2011 at 9:32 PM  
Blogger Isaac356 said...

It's going to be interesting to see how things turn out from here on.

When I first heard that the root keys for the PS3 were available, I wanted to buy one right away and get programming! I went to Best Buy three times a week and just stared at it, wanting it so bad, but saying to myself, "It's not the time."

Good thing I held off. It's not a question of whether or not it's illegal, I just don't even want it anymore. This is the very first time in my life that I've ever been sickened by a company enough to turn away from a product they make (I'm relatively young). And seeing those stocks makes it look like I'm not the only one.

I seriously wouldn't mind spending >$1000 on a computer with equivalent (or better) processing power to the PS3 right now. Too bad for Sony, because under other circumstances that would be a PS3 and a sizable amount of games.

April 12, 2011 at 9:44 PM  
Blogger ruld14 said...

You are a total inspiration! To bad i don't own an iphone or a PS3(Economic issue's, I live in Mexico) But hey your news made all the way down here! :D And i was really pissed when i read about it, me being a proud owner of PSP, i totally looked at it and said to my self -And this was the company I respected beceause of it's quality products- I'm gonna go with the boycott, I was saving some money for the NGP, but they can suck my balls, I'll spend my money on something else, maybe a good PC. But for real you are awesome, defending your rights! That is what all people should do, and not let themself get steped on by others, us end user can do what ever the fuck we want with our product :D. To bad the law suit ended in a settlement :( ... Hope you keep up some other project, it would be a waste that your talent went silent due to Sony...Fuck them! Come to Mexico, and get a CableCom Internet connection,Code and jailbreak, Beside Sony has minimal presence here(Piracy issues) , and they wont be able to trace your ip(We get stable ip's for an entire city,only with CableCom. Keep up the good work!
Ps-That last thing was a joke... :D

April 12, 2011 at 10:07 PM  
Blogger awesome said...

hey...just out of curiosity, I see the settlement says you can't break laws or Sony's authorized use stuff on any of their devices. Hypothetically speaking, if you were to root a Sony phone, would this count? Rooting is legal thanks in part to your actions with the iPhone, but many companies try to make you agree not to do it for blah blah reasons. So would that legal action violate your settlement? Hypothetically speaking of course, as I know you would probably not buy a Sony phone any more.

April 12, 2011 at 10:15 PM  
OpenID karnaj said...

@Hugo214 Did you actually read what documents are publicly available?? If ignorance is bliss you must be in heaven the Stipulation for the Agreement states that he can not Hack any Sony products nor can he be part of a group or a corporation that disseminates Exploits for Sony products. Before you comment Get Ya Shit Straight, and don't come out of the gates looking like the horse that is fixing to go to the Glue Factory. Geo if you want help publishing anything, give me a shout from my blog link.

April 12, 2011 at 10:32 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

@awesome Honestly, who the hell cares about Sony phones?

April 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM  
Blogger Jaymax said...

Something not adding up - AT ALL

In the article, Geohot's lawyer clearly indicates that the extent of the settlement is (a) Sony quit chasing Geohot, and (b) Geohot never tries to plug anything into any Sony product that isn't also a Sony product (well, not quite, but almost), and (c) THERE IS NO C

(b) is covered in the publicly released permanent injunction.
(a) is a natural consequence of settlement

But Geohot says the terms of the settlement are "confidential" (including the quotes, always, around 'confidential'.

So what gives? what's left to be confidential? what other aspects could there be to the settlement that requires keeping it confidential? or "confidential"? And what's with the quotes? The only thing I know is someones not being honest - either Geohot's lawyer is deliberately misleading the media, or Geohot is bullshitting when he says: "The terms of the settlement agreement are ‘confidential’ and the matter requires that they be ‘confidential’"

In the article his lawyer said: "I believe it's very important, when it comes to IP issues, to have the public discourse focus on what's taking place." and I couldn't agree more - so who agreed to the secrecy (if there is any)?

April 12, 2011 at 10:47 PM  
Blogger WhiteTigerX7 said...

George... I outta bonk you on the head for settling! WTH man?! WTH?!

You could have buried Sony and proved they committed perjury, evidence tampering, court manipulation, and illegal acts against private citizens.

NO SOUP FOR YOU! NO SOUP! GET OUT!

April 12, 2011 at 10:53 PM  
Blogger Fiohnel said...

Dude, congratulation for the settlement. You get to move on to the next (evil) big thing instead of spending time in jail or prolonged lawsuit. This scene already dragged for too long, and we all get the point already.

Looking forward to whatever (epic shitstorm) new cool project you're going to tackle in the future.

April 12, 2011 at 11:05 PM  
Blogger MiscShitBits said...

@geohot. We were rooting for you and glad it seems like the bulk of the bullshit has now passed. Hopefully more productive times are ahead for you. The world needs less drama, more tinkering.

April 12, 2011 at 11:14 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Don't listen to the haters, Geohot! :)

April 12, 2011 at 11:32 PM  
Blogger eio said...

@Geohot. You are awesome.

If any lesson was learned, hide behind the anonymity of thousands instead of being a hero aka scapegoat in a courtroom.

IF geohot lost, how many of you would pony up the unknown amount of money if their was absolutely no investment in return. And putting aside the insane amount of money in the aftermath, lets consider we might have lost geohot in all fields in lieu of any impending civil cases. Hypothetical situation of course but crazy enough things have happened in our U.S court system.

-Geohot Fan.
Just saying thank you for all your development.
ps. STFU sony fanboys.

April 13, 2011 at 12:23 AM  
Blogger steve said...

@ geohot http://www.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NYSE:SNE lol sony stock still falling lets see it go down even more!!!

April 13, 2011 at 12:33 AM  
Blogger _ said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM  
Blogger Jordan said...

geohot you are the man.
i can see why you took the settlement, it would be hard facing a multinationl company.
well done for everything you did. I will boycott sony.
if they are taking away our rights, they can say goodbye to me.

April 13, 2011 at 2:52 AM  
Blogger Paweł said...

Too bad your whole 'adventure' didn't change the world at all. I'm sure sony didn't change either. They don't want us to have fun with PS - all they care about is $$$. Cool story thought;)

April 13, 2011 at 3:53 AM  
Blogger Anton said...

Русские тебя полностью поддерживают!!!!!
^Vaz9

April 13, 2011 at 5:15 AM  
Blogger William said...

i for one will not boycott sony, i have been a fan of geohot since his iphone days.
but he tried attacking goliath with a pebble and hit goliath in the shoulder, then argued with goliath on where he was on the battlefield and eventually both parties gave up.

Geohot went in illprepared, i knew he was not gonna be able to take them head on by himself. Hell the class action lawsuit has more people in it and sony is still winning!

Public awareness should be everyone priority, once the entire us knows each sides story, then you can sue and maybe come out on top of sony. one person isnt enough to take on sony, not right now.

April 13, 2011 at 5:57 AM  
Blogger Jaymax said...

(@Icestar - jFWIW, I'm a total Geohot fan, not a hater - but logic strongly suggests there's something of significance being "hidden" from us.)

Maybe, just maybe, Sony were hurting so much in the geekmarket, that they agreed to re-introduce OtherOS, and maybe open up the platform docs a teensy bit, just to make the case go away.

But of course they also wanted to do everything they could to avoid going through this again: So they wanted Geohot to agree to forever wear gloves when touching anything with Sony written on it.

But the 'nature' of the settlement (other than the Injunction) directly pertains to and could influence a quasi-related court case, and thus "the matter requires that they be ‘confidential’" would equal sub-judice.

Meh, I'll offer odds at 1:10^6

Oh, and Sony has agreed to refund all Geohot's donators at double what they gave.

April 13, 2011 at 7:30 AM  
Blogger r2w3rwtweew said...

Dear Geohot,

If u can wait like 2-3 years, i'll join you in ur cause :D
Studying application developer next year =3

April 13, 2011 at 7:47 AM  
Blogger Woz said...

@i hate and @Geohot, still just looking for the answer to @i hate's question, is this it for cfw for ps3, im pretty sure millions of people want to know this answer, i dont think i an put up with filling out any more surveys :/

April 13, 2011 at 8:38 AM  
Blogger Christopher Corn said...

HS, NSA and a few other SCA members were the "big hammer" behind this protective action. Mention a closed secure system and all I hear is candy factory. Jaw-breaker anyone?

April 13, 2011 at 8:39 AM  
Blogger Dolanor Tharivae said...

Off-Topic, but I don't know how to contact GeoHot. Anyway, SE France let customers choose the new name for a Xperia Mobile on facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/sonyericssonfr?sk=app_118634811503430

Let's flood them with Xperia GeoHot
(oh yeah, btw, you don't win anything on that "contest". Such a bunch of greedy mofos

April 13, 2011 at 8:59 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

I personally have no sympathy for him, the hacking scene has been underground for years..I personally don't understand why he was trying to get famous/credit through hacking. I remember days when things were released anonymously and through third parties via IRC and other means.

All I'm saying I remember days when shit was released and it wasn't attached to your facebook, your personal blog, and your youtube account(Does anyone know who recently released that K_License Extractor or what Xport even looks like from the original Xbox days, exactly!)...he asked for this shit to happen to him...him and graf......get off that e-fame train..

April 13, 2011 at 9:02 AM  
Blogger Agathiyar said...

Hate the Game, not hate the player.

April 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM  
Blogger Daniel said...

Your just boycoting because you cant afford it anymore. Sony won get over it

April 13, 2011 at 9:30 AM  
Blogger sulalongkong said...

No way. I want NGP.

April 13, 2011 at 9:50 AM  
Blogger Grey Soul said...

Listen geohot, I have an idea and I think it's important.
It seems like you got remaining money (that you obtained from our donations to you), that you may soon send to some good cause.
However, the new raid to graf_chokolo is disgusting. You could send that money to him, so he could keep defending himself.
I bet if you ask us about that, we would all agree to it.
Think about it, thanks.

April 13, 2011 at 10:14 AM  
Blogger Brat said...

You are sounding more pathetic as time goes by. Everyone saw the settlement docs, shut up already.

April 13, 2011 at 10:43 AM  
Blogger Andy said...

@jaymax the 'confidential' portion must be the definition of what "unauthorized access" must be. It seems that this is the only portion not actually defined. So, if that's what is confidential, then it's not really confidential. It must be things like: reverse engineer, connect PS3 to any tools designed for reverse engineering / security exploitation / etc, posting theories on how it could be reverse engineered. Sharing any work already done on how to accomplish these things.

April 13, 2011 at 10:51 AM  
Blogger iSao said...

Hacker Asshole, i hope you go to jail fast, i will continue buying sony because they dont fuck with me, bastard fucked with playstation 3, i hope someone fuck you.

April 13, 2011 at 11:29 AM  
Blogger iSao said...

WHAT YOU WANT, AN BASTARD HACKER SAYING SHIT, OR THE BEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD? I WANT PLAYSATION 4, i WANT NGP, i WANT SOME PEOPLE WHO DONT FUCK WITH MY GAME CONSOLE< AND DONT FUCK WITH MY ONLINE EXPERIENCE< I WANT SOMEONE WHO DONT FUCK WITH MY MONEY, FUCK YOU GEOHOT

April 13, 2011 at 11:33 AM  
Blogger Vitor said...

Geohot, everybody is commenting.

How about helping Graf with the rest of money from your legal funds ?

April 13, 2011 at 11:49 AM  
Blogger Ryan said...

An enlightening comment section here
http://kotaku.com/#!5791548/sued-ps3-hacker-says-hell-never-buy-a-sony-product-again
how the gaming community feels about hotz.

April 13, 2011 at 11:57 AM  
Blogger Jaymax said...

@geohot - here's maybe a good destination for funds ...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10718904

"A laptop may have caused the fatal house fire overnight in which the victim woman died and her two children were seriously injured."

"Police believed the fire started near a laptop which was in the corner of the lounge and was charging at the time"

Sony does manslaughter? Kids could do with a settlement also?

April 13, 2011 at 12:13 PM  
Blogger TheCheese33 said...

Yeah, I'm sure everyone wants to join you in your little temper tantrum.

Good riddance.

April 13, 2011 at 12:21 PM  
Blogger jesse said...

>fuck with Sony TOS
>get caught/buthurt
>boycott

Ha ha ha ha

April 13, 2011 at 12:34 PM  
Blogger Technamaniac said...

i'm really surprised that you would even link NGT especially since that bearded idiot calls you a punk, a child, and many other disparaging terms throughout his video, and probably doesn't even know you. anyway, it would have been nice for the people who did donate to you if you stood up for the community and took on Sony, but let me tell you honestly, if I were you, I would have settled outside of court as well. Let these people go on their rants about how they're ashamed of you and bla bla. 98% of those people don't possess even one eighth of the skill that you have, sir. It may be a disappointment with respect to the fact that jailbreaking the PS3 is not officially legal because of your case, but i can tell you this.. no one other than you could have done it. Well done George.

April 13, 2011 at 2:32 PM  
Blogger David said...

IBM Servers Vs Clustered PS3's with the same processor.

hmmm!

~)

April 13, 2011 at 3:21 PM  
Blogger Ítalo said...

HAHAHHA

AT LEAST YOU WILL NOT JAILBREAK THE PLAYSTATION 4!

Good news, keep doing this, Geohot! =D

April 13, 2011 at 4:20 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

Well, I am not sure why you agree with NGT when he says in plain language that he angered because Sony decided to settle, and not to take you to court. Yet again, you say they want to join the boycott, so more so you are being vague to try and build esteem behind your attempts of boycotting a corporations products that you are prohibited from exploiting by a permanent injunction you agreed to legally.

This could have all been avoided if you had not posted the authentication codes for their software. This matter would have simply been an investigation by Sony where they would have requested you to show them how you found your exploit (like the Hypervisor case), but sadly, you decided to grandstand the entire affair.
Also, by your logic of economics, Sony's stock market trend is going up, but reality is you cannot judge economics on a single month. Their stock has being going down since the PS3 was released, for selling a console at $600 when it took $800 to produce was not sound business sense (though really nice for the consumer). Late last year was the first time the PS3 had drawn profit for Sony, the PSN is still in the "red" since its free to access.
Though, this lawsuit showed sound business sense for one primary reason: It was in the defense of third party franchises alone, for the potential piracy from using the code would have primarily affected games below the 8gb mark. Unless you can think of someone willingly waiting for a first party Sony game to download that is made up of about 20-50gb of data? (gotta love blu-ray)

April 13, 2011 at 4:45 PM  
Blogger Hans Christian said...

George, you're a dead beat butt hurt looser. It shines through all the way.

April 13, 2011 at 5:06 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@Lucas

You know how else this could all have been avoided? If Sony had decided never to remove OtherOS, a feature they advertised as being present on their PS3 product. But they did, and that's what really started all of the hacking in earnest. Hacking that uncovered Sony's blatant incompetence, and then, by proxy, the incompetence of all of the companies making the games that all of the idiots are whining and bitching about because the game devs put all of their 'security' client-side for maximum cheating potential.

It's really quite amazing how many people would gladly give up all of their freedom for a device that grants, at best, personal amusement, and how pissed off they are that someone managed to do what was actually possible with a device rather than what they were merely told was possible with it.

April 13, 2011 at 5:13 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@iSao

"I will continue buying Sony because they don't fuck with me." You obviously never used OtherOS. Quite a lot of others did, and rather enjoyed the feature; I'd say Sony "fucked with" them pretty hard when they removed it. And you're pissed off that a group of those guys Sony "fucked with" decided to figure out a way to get what was essentially stolen from them back? Oh, no, you're pissed off about the cheating, like every other fool who isn't looking at the big picture of what these lawsuits mean.

Geohot never "fucked with" you, or your money. Some jerks who know just enough to cheat at video games did. And they would not have been able to do that much if the companies developing the games had any real notion of what security was. However, Sony did "fuck with" people who like OtherOS; either they "fucked with" their "online experience" by not allowing them to have it unless they upgraded (thus removing OtherOS) or they "fucked with" "[their] console" by removing OtherOS, a feature which was originally advertised as a selling point for that specific console.

Read up more on the whole debacle rather than just being pissed off about a few unrelated jackasses who have nothing to do with anything.

April 13, 2011 at 5:22 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@George Hotz

Congrats on escaping the whole thing with your life intact. While I do wish you could have pushed it all the way and set the precedent that it is totally legal to hack your console and share the information, I do understand that it was a gamble that could definitely have extended to a war of attrition wherein they just bleed you to death.

I'll definitely be steering people away from Sony when I can; not like it'll be hard, given the shining examples of customer care and consideration that can be found everywhere.

Keep hacking.

April 13, 2011 at 5:30 PM  
Blogger shentino said...

Geohot, you at least owe us an explanation of why you let sony steamroll you with that consent decree.

What did they get on you?

April 13, 2011 at 5:43 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@FxChiP Can you please show me these advertisements for the otherOS feature? I never saw anything about it until after the PS3 was released, and that on forums alone that it was acknowledged by consumers, never in official advertisements or statements from Sony. If I were to guess, Sony made a point of such with George, because he has not made any reference to the concept of false advertisement since well before the settlement.
Also, hacking is personal amusement, going online and playing fairly with others without crashing the servers is mass amusement my friend. Anyways, its a video game console, when has there ever been freedom within a systems OS?

Anyways, someone please just show me these advertisements if you can find them, I would find it very interesting to see them.

April 13, 2011 at 6:15 PM  
OpenID c75124bc-661d-11e0-aa02-000bcdcb2996 said...

There is no way in hell I would ever buy another sony product. They have ruined their reputation in my books (because of this case).

April 13, 2011 at 6:31 PM  
OpenID Techokami said...

geohot, serious question: All the property taken from you due to the temporary restraining order, will you be getting anything back? It seems extremely unfair if they keep your smartphones and computers from you after taking a lot of your money and rights.

April 13, 2011 at 7:47 PM  
Blogger Shawn said...

@Techokami,

As I recall Sony never got their grubby hands on his stuff. The terms of the search were that Hotz relinquished his stuff to his attorney, his Attorney would hand it to a neutral 3rd party. Sony had to some up with a list of terms the the neutral party would search for, after Sony and Hotz's lawyers went through the list to strike down whatever terms were deemed irrelevant. Then the neutral party was going to conduct the search, and then all 3 parties would sit down and go over the findings.

This is another big reason Sony backed down. The terms were fair, which means they were to Hotz's advantage. They were not going to find anything that pointed to Hotz having a PSN account, or that he was Blinkmaniac.

April 13, 2011 6:36 PM

April 13, 2011 at 9:40 PM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

http://youtu.be/HsiWUC2S1nw

April 14, 2011 at 10:54 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@Lucas - Let's see:

Not an ad, but...
1. Straight from the manual - http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/osinstall.html (Guess the online manual needs an update considering Mr. Sacks (Sony Lawyer in CAS suit) statement that lumps all PS3 Linux users together as hackers, "Well, certainly one thing we might find is whether or not any of them are engaged in the hacking that we now know was a widespread effort.

Obviously, the people in this class are the people who downloaded, or claim they downloaded the Linux operating system onto their other OS. It is beyond dispute now that there in is an ongoing effort to hack the PS3. In fact, most recently, there was an effort to hack around for update 3.21.

And these people, as members of the class, are engaged in activity that is not only prohibited under Sony's agreements, but is illegal. So if, in fact, some of these very sophisticated users, who are included in the five named plaintiffs, are engaged in the hacking, we certainly have the opportunity to find that out." :P)

The employee responsible for maintaining the HyperVisor(Also not an ad but the beginning of the lies):
2. The now infamous Geoff quote - http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2010-February/007189.html (And that about a month and a half before the removal, "concentrate" in corporate terms is resource re-allocation or "Save us money" not hacking related, the Slim OtherOS removal was a 100% $$$ motivated.)

Also this was reported prior to the Slims's release as far back as 2009 - http://lists.ozlabs.org/pipermail/cbe-oss-dev/2009-August/006952.html
The article talked about on Engadget - http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/18/sony-debuts-slimmer-ps3

From the CEO prior seveal months before the PS3's release:
3. Straight from Kutaragi (Pre-PS3 Phat Launch Even) - http://www.engadget.com/2005/06/09/kutaragi-confirms-ps3-hdd-will-be-add-on-and-will-run-linux/
(As said this is pre-launch) Does a statement from the then CEO of SCEI count as advertisement? Also, at the time I of course took this as rumor until I saw #4.

4. Right on the box - "“A portion of the hard disc capacity is reserved for use in connection with system administration, maintenance, and additional options. This may occur upon installation of system software or other software.” System software or other software? Yay, I can install "Other Software"!!! - This is where I personally actually first saw it in writing beyond looking at tech blogs, didn't know it was Linux, but as a programmer this and the next one(also cited in the manual which came with my PS3 that I still have) the idea of indie development sounded awesome to me and made my choice vs the 360 at that time(I now have both including my still working with Linux 3.15 PS3 which I used in college).

5. More straight from Sony - http://www.playstation.com/ps3-openplatform/index.html
Of course amended and changed a bit since the removal, but that has been there since... The original stated back around 9th Nov 2006, "PLAYSTATION®3 allows any desired third-party system software to be installed on it besides its system software provided by Sony Computer Entertainment Inc. Details will be posted on this site soon." - Two days before the Phat launch as part of promoting it as a PC.

April 14, 2011 at 1:51 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

BTW, I had no problem with OtherOS not being on the Slim. It wasn't there to start, but on the Phat they stole value from me after the fact.

Another example of this would be a car manufacturer canceling your warranty and claiming to be because some drivers were "abusing" it. Warranties are advertised as a reason one car is better than another along with features like A/C, gas mileage, etc... even if those are core features (one isn't a necessity and one is a spec). If you took in your car for an recall(AKA "Maintenance" or "System Update") because there was a problem with the A/C that messed with the door locks and instead of fixing the A/C they removed it and said if you don't let us remove it your warranty is cancelled you'd be as pissed as the legit Linux users are. By removing the A/C they save on future costs of maintaining it under the warranty. Same goes for the OtherOS removal. However, the new car models came out with the A/C no problem, you go what you paid for and the new models are cheaper(due to lower manufacturer costs, lower maintenance costs, etc...)

Any time something speaks of conspiracy, follow the money!!!

April 14, 2011 at 2:02 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@ Lucas - A few more things straight from Sony:

1. A 2007 SCEA Developers press release (used google cache to highlight Linux original is http://us.playstation.com/corporate/about/press-release/379.html ) - http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QxmGfIjZxTEJ:us.playstation.com/corporate/about/press-release/379.html+site:http://us.playstation.com/corporate/about/press-release/+linux&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com


2. A joint Sony/SCEI/Toshiba/IBM Press release during the Cell's development from SCEI: http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/051110e.pdf - No mention of the PS3, but this was in 2005 and it does say, "This joint effort by IBM, Toshiba and the Sony Group to build the Cell development infrastructure is an important step into the future," said Masakazu Suzuoki, deputy senior vice president, Semiconductor Development Division, SCEI. "I believe that it will not only strongly support PlayStation® but consumer electronics business as well."

3. A Sony direct press release at: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200502/05-0208AE/index.html From the release:"Another advantage of Cell is to support multiple operating systems, such as conventional operating systems (including Linux), real-time operating systems for computer entertainment and consumer electronics applications as well as guest operating systems for specific applications, simultaneously." - While it doesn't mention the PS3 directly, why would SCEI be a part of it as they are "solely" responsible for the Playstation brand if what their lawyers in the CAS say is true.

These make it obvious (at least to me it was planned as a PC from the beginning) with "Multiple" operating systems.

April 14, 2011 at 2:53 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

One last thing, one of the current arguments Sony has against discovery and producing documents containing certain key words in the CAS (Class-Action Suit) is that it would produce to many documents, but ehh... Linux on the PS3 was no big deal right?

April 14, 2011 at 3:07 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@Kreationz Finally someone has something they can show me, and please remember that the PS3 was only suppose to go so far towards a computer. It was still meant to be closed off to some degree since it was still a system. Also, do not forget that Sony has the Vaio line of laptops, and having access to a really powerful chip would be beneficial to that as well.
Also, at the beginning the PS3's life cycle there was the idea of installing certain portions of games onto the console so that they could run more efficiently. Honestly, there is only a reference to it in the manual that is in reference to an aspect, but it is not advertisement.
Oh and George, you were beaten ages ago by people through linux. They had Windows XP on there 4 years ago I believe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Ecr8tWetI
Neither Sony or Microsoft went after this, so I believe this also shows that otherOS was taken away for security primarily.

April 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@Lucas

I was actually going to post a response with a link, but Kreationz beat me to it -- and in a way I couldn't have originally matched, even!

You're still missing the point, though. The Xbox 360 (hell, even the Xbox) and the PS3 are literally functionally indistinguishable from proper computers -- but the companies behind them masquerade them as "dumb consoles" that happen to do multimedia and networking as well. All it takes is the ability to run your own code on them, and you have a fully functional -- and incredibly powerful -- computing machine for whatever tasks you may want to run. Which was why people liked and wanted OtherOS, and why people started hacking -- to do far more than was ever intended by Sony. Sony having their way and no one hacking the PS3 or using Linux on it is a gigantic waste of potential, one that far too many people are completely comfortable with.

April 14, 2011 at 6:32 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@Lucas "Also, at the beginning the PS3's life cycle there was the idea of installing certain portions of games onto the console so that they could run more efficiently." - Like the 360? LOL (Would've been better for the PSP, It was one of my reasons for hacking it. Flash = Faster than Optical) Also, some games do do that now.

"Also, at the beginning the PS3's life cycle there was the idea of installing certain portions of games onto the console so that they could run more efficiently. Honestly, there is only a reference to it in the manual that is in reference to an aspect, but it is not advertisement."

The manual is also an after purchase thing so I agree not an ad, but it does point to it being a "core" feature. (They have manual scans submitted as part of the evidence in the CAS lawsuit.)

"Oh and George, you were beaten ages ago by people through linux. They had Windows XP on there 4 years ago I believe"

Not exactly that is a copy of Linux on the PS3 running a Windows 95 Virtual Machine. My laptop runs Linux, Dos/Win 98(For retro-ware), Win XP, Win 7, Mac OSX, and Droid(built for X86). All but Win 7 are run through a Virtual Machine.

"Neither Sony or Microsoft went after this, so I believe this also shows that otherOS was taken away for security primarily."

Why would they? OtherOS wasn't limited to Linux (There are FreeBSD builds for it as well.) The copy of Windows used was licensed (as long as it's on one system then that was legal as well).

Where I agree with Sony on this part:
Widespread promotion? No (or it would be all over the place and not just a few press releases). Promotion at all? Yes, at least to the tech/dev community, but not the average consumer(They want them to buy the VAIO instead $$$), also promoting it that way would have cost IBM more money and people would have bought it just as a PC(many like myself did buy it over something else as a multi-function device) and they would've lost more money try to teach non-techs to install Linux and knew that and limited support for it.

But... I don't believe it needs to be a core advertised feature, if it doesn't interfere with the primary features don't take it away(See my A/C on a car comparison a few posts back.) All I see at this point as reasons are:

Hacking - listed first, but minor in that it was already done without Linux months before and patches for Linux/the HV could have been made, but that costs $$$)

$$$ - See the first one and it was sold at a loss so those buying it as a PC cost Sony $$$. It costs money to pay programmers to maintain it(otherwise Geoff wouldn't have had a job.) costs money to provide tech support, etc... (It was the Albatross hanging around the possibility of profits from the PS3 for Sony's gaming division)

Also related to $$$ - There was likely pressure from IBM as well due to their blade servers. (The USAF bought 2,000 PS3's not 2,000 Cell Blade Servers, same goes for the Border Patrol and other organizations that wanted a cheap Super Computer, that's a $400K loss for Sony selling the PS3 at a loss and likely millions for IBM)

Like I said, follow the money...

April 14, 2011 at 7:26 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@FxChip - And my dumb Atari 2600 (Yes, I still have one and it works) still has this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BASIC_Programming - As that article say it was a fun toy, but too limited (consoles weren't ready to be full PC's yet). I did make a program to calculate PI on it though and ran it till it crashed(got just over 100 accurate digits before crashing).

April 14, 2011 at 7:31 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Hell, even TI graphing calculators have BASIC on them. It was never a "new" idea and at Kutaragi was a strong supporter of the OtherOS feature and indie programming in general it's current management that is more focused on $$$ than innovation that is the REAL problem with Sony, but it's bigger than just them with governments(like ours with the DMCA) that are stifling creativity as well. As fast as technology changes these days, CopyRight(Wrong) law is out dated, but we the people need to change that. Fair Use is the only saving grace of the DMCA. The DMCA had good intent, but bad language and and bad implementation and now very uneven application. Look at the LG vs Sony stuff both guilty and both suing each other(They'll likely settle and license each others' tech to the other party, unless one of the case has a clear victor...).

April 14, 2011 at 7:39 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@Kreationz I am sorry I do not have time to fully respond to your response Kreationz at this moment in time, but I just wanted to say real quick that the Xbox 360 took that idea from Sony, it came at least two years after the PS3's launch.

April 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@Lucas - Thanks for the correction. I didn't know the timeline, but the way you stated it was if they never implemented it(and I didn't research it, but I know my XBOX has "Install to HD". It's great for both load times and extending the laser diode life(360 has a big issue with this from my experience).

Also, thanks for the intelligent counter arguments. It's rare to find on both sides.

April 14, 2011 at 9:15 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@Kreationz Please bear with me as I respond in fragments, things have picked up with girl friend and school. But then, it may be easier to converse in fragments then daily essays. Also, I thank you for pleasantly arguing in return, I can actually see George's argument for once, that I have been yearning to understand, but only found blatant anger with little rationale.

Microsoft would not like XP, arguably the best OS ever made, on the PS3 because the 360 has always been extremely closed off, and admitted difficulties in accessing certain features because of the horrid OS (the original OS). By having XP (illegal based on licensing theories of that time period, primarily because few realized that Sony had laptops with Windows being sold installed on them, that their competition was actually a lot more friendly then people realized) on the PS3 would harm their facade of a console war that was believed to be spurring game sales, etc. If you notice, MS and Sony work together in the background for everything but video games, especially since Sony is bringing out 3D at full force, and MS is adopting it quickly for computer gaming.
Basically, in summary, XP on the PS3 made a very convincing argument to ditch a 360 with a horrible OS for the PS3 which was a lot more lenient at that time. Only issue with a PS3 was that it is extremely difficult to hack, especially then.

And additionally, a humorous memory: When the install feature came out for the Xbox 360, Halo 3 would plummet in performance when installed, and this was around the time that the online was at its peak and still trying to compete with Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare.

Ah k, I retract my statement about this being short, though I will still release it as you could see at the beginning of the comment. I got really into my tangent on the facade of a console war these corporations found beneficial. (One time the media actually did something irritating that greatly benefited corporation.)

April 15, 2011 at 11:52 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

My point was there was no lawsuit due to the fact (Like my Virtual Machine copies) the license wasn't broken. They may not have liked it but nothing illegal was done in the case of using OtherOS to install ANY other OS.

April 15, 2011 at 12:24 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@Kreationz yes, I understand that, that is why I explained the original idea that it was illegal from a few years ago. All theoretical, though they did have to play with code via Linux to have XP on there, so it would still be considered hacking, as those that brought into onto the PS3 claimed it was.

April 15, 2011 at 4:21 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Yup, no doubt they hacked Linux, but they didn't hack the PS3. Here's a really old video link (and there are better ways now): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-Ecr8tWetI

April 15, 2011 at 6:08 PM  
Blogger Loris said...

I rolfed, You know what ? Gunns4hire (The NGT main dude) BANNED ME from commenting on his video JUST BECAUSE I said I supported You and Annonymous. This idiot doesn't even know what he's talking about, he thinks every people that jailbreak the PS3 is for cheating on his crappy COD game. WTF is he doing ? Censoring me because I said I supported people who have more than enough about those big corporation dicking around with consumers ?

I wasn't about to join the boycott, at lesn't not fully. I wouldn't buy the next Playstation but I would still buy game for my PS3. Well Not anymore, I think I'm gonna sell it.

April 17, 2011 at 8:02 AM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Hey Geohot, I just wanted to point out, that "TheGUNNShop" guy has been insulting you. Linking to that jerks page is a bad idea. Seriously, I would not listen to that jerk.

April 18, 2011 at 2:30 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

seriously, I can't stand jerks like that "TheGUNNShop" guy, he disrespects people too much. Geohot, I think you should respond to that guy for insulting you. Let him know that you saw his stupid video!

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