Tuesday, April 12, 2011

A New Topic

One of the new focuses of this blog will be following the OtherOS lawsuit. These class action lawsuits are the type that can bankrupt or do seriously financial harm to a company, and finally get Sony to realize that they are not above the law as they would like to believe.

When OtherOS was first removed, I had no doubt it was due to the hypervisor exploit. I mean, that's plausible, and it's what Sony said. But then I started to reconsider. OtherOS removal is a completely stupid step considering no one had even done anything with the hack yet. And the exploit was totally patchable. And it took them two months to remove it. And it's still on everyone's PS3 who didn't update. In early February, post HV hack, Geoff Levand promised that OtherOS would remain in the phats. Now Sony is being squirrely and trying to stop him from being deposed. This raises some serious concerns about what they are trying to hide.

SCEA also likes to play games with their corporate structure. They are whining to the court, saying they didn't remove OtherOS and that they are just the messenger. And that they can't get the documents and communications saying why because SCEI has them. Then at the same time they assert, well you know we can get the documents, but you have to agree to never name SCEI as a defendant. If I were the plaintiffs, the first thing I would have done is added SCEI and got a motion to compel on those docs.

As a quick sidenote, they claim restoring Linux to your PS3 is "not only prohibited under Sony's agreements, but is illegal" This is an example of a lie. EULAs are not law. Sony's beliefs are not law. You win a case cleanly against someone who restored the Linux you took away from their PS3, then we'll talk.

And some of Sony's words just really unsettle me. "You don't have an ownership right in the software that Sony Computer allows you to use. That's the whole point of the license agreement, it's not an ownership interest, it is a privilege that Sony conveys on them." Should I feel privileged to give you $300? If you take the privilege back, what can I do with my uncontested ownership physical PS3? If I stop using your software and install my own, you'll sue me.

But most troubling of all is what Sony is doing to the people who have stepped up to represent the class. Sony has attempted to demand inspection, and by inspection they mean full copies, of not only the representatives PS3s but of their home personal computers. To any reasonable person, it's clear Sony doesn't expect to find "evidence" there, it's just simply to harass the representatives. And the harassment worked on one, he pulled out of the suit citing privacy reasons. Know what Sony did? They tried to demand inspection of his things anyway. You get the message? Basically if Sony does bad things, you better not call them out, or they'll attempt to make your life hell.

87 Comments:

Blogger Leo said...

Sony has always been at the bottom, since they were formed, and I'm pretty sure they always will be. At least until they go bankrupt.

Btw George, any idea if the public will see anything coming from Sony after the months in court?

April 12, 2011 at 1:29 PM  
Blogger mushvig said...

Geo back to the iphone we all miss u man.....

April 12, 2011 at 1:34 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

If I write a book and you buy a copy, do you own the words in the form I wrote them? No, the publisher and the author does, and the same applies for Software, as it is just code, just a book of Computer language that brings about an image, etc.

April 12, 2011 at 1:36 PM  
Blogger VGambit said...

@Lucas

But according to Sony, if I white-out all of your words and write in my own, you can sue me.

April 12, 2011 at 1:39 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

Books are protected by copyright, if I wanted to cross out words I didn't like and tell other people to cross out those same words in the copy they bought, I could. If I wanted to sell that copy, I could. If you demanded I stop reading the book upside down, you couldn't. I just couldn't reproduce the book.

The same rules do not apply to software in Sony's eyes.

April 12, 2011 at 1:41 PM  
Blogger Jasper said...

You are the freaking reason OtherOS was removed you Jerkweed. so don't go bashing around on Sony with it. + compared with the things that Sony has added to the PS3, the removal of OtherOS is just nothing at all.

April 12, 2011 at 1:41 PM  
Blogger Andy said...

EULA's are a complete joke. They are written completely to protect the company who writes them. And they are huge and change often. Nothing about them provides ANY benefit or protection for the consumer.

April 12, 2011 at 1:43 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

It's actually looking like I am not the reason, and the reason may have had nothing to do with security at all. Maybe pressure from IBM?

It's not like OtherOS was removed to make room for the other things, OtherOS is simply a #define in the code Sony commented out.

April 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Even though the wording is so stupidly shortsighted limiting there is precedent that consumers have the right to run whatever software (legally attained) we want on our hardware.

April 12, 2011 at 1:44 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

@Andy I agree, I have alluded to a war coming before, this "licensing" bullshit and software patents will be the first to fall.

April 12, 2011 at 1:45 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

@Tony Sure, but in order to do it, you need to circumvent. Smackdown from the DMCA. GPLv3 attempts to solve this problem.

April 12, 2011 at 1:47 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

But it was the password to authenticate games that was released that drew the most anger from Sony, not actually cracking the system(which technically using their authenticity system to get through, not bypassing it, really is basically like a keylogger finding my password for a game and logging in). And please remember, if you hack into a 360 or change anything past what they deem appropriate, you get a bricked 360 and annulled warranty. And also, when the guy cracked the hardware, they did not sue him, they just had him show them what he did. So really, they never did anything about the hardware in the end.
And Jasper, that was not George, that was a different case that went by quietly.
Oh, and is the settlement under some form of NDA? Or are both sides just voluntarily being quiet?

April 12, 2011 at 1:51 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

And Sony does not have a monopoly, so stop saying this in a tense where you "had" to buy their product...

April 12, 2011 at 1:52 PM  
Blogger Abdulla Saif said...

so we're confused about the settlement what actually will happen in next court??

April 12, 2011 at 1:53 PM  
Blogger Akram Etman said...

What r u planning 2 do the next days...will u be still hacking the ps3 ????

April 12, 2011 at 1:57 PM  
Blogger VGambit said...

@geohot

Didn't you hack the hypervisor after Geoff made that announcement?

> On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 09:58 -0700, geoffrey.levand at am.sony.com wrote:
>> The feature of “Install Other OS” was removed from the new
>> “Slim” PS3 model to focus on delivering games and other
>> entertainment content.
>>
>> Please be assured that SCE is committed to continue
>> the support for previously sold models that have the
>> “Install Other OS” feature and that this feature will
>> not be disabled in future firmware releases.

April 12, 2011 at 2:02 PM  
Blogger David said...

Geohot in reflection do you think you could have run homebrew without releasing the keys?

April 12, 2011 at 2:10 PM  
Blogger Tony said...

Yes, and per the "law" it still isn't "legal" to jailbreak a ipad, ipod, appleTv or any hardware that isn't a mobile handset. Someone needs to press issue that the exemption is expanded. We already have the exemption to circumvent but like most laws they tend to be either too restrictive or too broad for their intended purpose.

I don't believe anyone at the copyright office actually believes it's OK to have cydia on an iphone but it's not OK to have it on an ipod touch but according to their own wording it doesn't fit the exemption.

April 12, 2011 at 2:17 PM  
Blogger staycool72 said...

What the hell is the matter with you people that think geohot is the reason why OtherOS was removed, OtherOS was removed in FW 3.21. Geohot jailbroke FW 3.55 to give that feature back to the community and now Sony (POS) goes and sue'd geohot for it. So with that being said geohot is not the reason so all you animate out there need to stfu and get a wife.

April 12, 2011 at 2:17 PM  
Blogger staycool72 said...

Oops people

April 12, 2011 at 2:18 PM  
Blogger Andy said...

really trying to reconcile 2 things about you Geohot.....you state that you're against piracy, but you also state that you want to play Super Mario on your PS3.

So what's the deal? Do you claim that since you own Super Mario (in some format) that it gives you rights to play it on another device?

April 12, 2011 at 2:19 PM  
Blogger Xavis75211 said...

@andy if i own a copy of a game, whats to stop me from playing it on any system capable of playing it? format? format is just a joke. if i own the copy, i will play it whenever and on whatever i want. and besides, when you buy a copy you are given a right to use it, there is no specifics given.

April 12, 2011 at 2:29 PM  
Blogger staycool72 said...

Geohot, Sony has always been about screwing over the the public just to make themselves look good and also richer, Sony needs to burn in hell.

April 12, 2011 at 2:29 PM  
Blogger awesome said...

@Akram Etman
That was answered in the settlement agreed to yesterday. Geohot isn't allowed to hack Sony gadgets.

April 12, 2011 at 2:32 PM  
Blogger gountar said...

Very interesting analysis Georges, i was actually asking myself why graf got sued for working on a linux loader... And why guys like Hermes / waninkoko / Kmeaw / Dean (...) were not.

Indeed these guys are working on enabling piracy ( well some are not really enabling piracy but don't do anything to stop piracy )

What's wrong with linux on PS3? They gave it to us at the beginning... Well a beefed down linux with no RSX support but hey better than nothing...

Graf is being sued for bringing back linux to the PS3 with no interest in piracy...

I'd really like to know what they have against Linux...

April 12, 2011 at 2:45 PM  
Blogger Dan Morelle said...

Its better to have a life than get embroiled with this bollocks. Take a holiday and look at the sky or something.

April 12, 2011 at 2:47 PM  
Blogger Bruner said...

People seem up in arms about Geohot's settlement. Personally I don't have a problem with it. I also don't think it is enforceable, as you can't restrict someone's ability to earn a living, in his chosen career. So he basically said, ok, I agree you won't bother me anymore. :)

April 12, 2011 at 2:50 PM  
Blogger שראל said...

Sony just stupid money I bought the PS3 I have the right to do it at will without their permission I'm not surprised if Sony did not pay the judge to have their side

April 12, 2011 at 2:51 PM  
OpenID 639d096a-55c2-11e0-b8ae-000bcdcb5194 said...

The thing is this, Sony removed OtherOS because they were losing money. Since the hypervisor was exploited they felt that they could get away with saying it was for security reasons and people wouldn't care. My opinion is this. I don't give a f*ck about your systems' security. If I buy something with certain features they have NO right to take away those features. If piracy is stealing, wouldn't that also be stealing, or do corporations have special privileges?

April 12, 2011 at 2:55 PM  
Blogger Pedro said...

Damn lucas you put him in his place the polite way, he acts like he doesn't know what he did wrong. I'm still wondering where are the failoverflow guys you know the ones that did the work and disappeared in the wind?

Oh and George any word on donation refunds?

April 12, 2011 at 2:56 PM  
Blogger Tyler said...

Hey Geohot, now that you cant hack the PS3 you should make a blog with tutorials of examples explaining how to hack into any system(in general) and have other people hack the PS3 in your place XD

April 12, 2011 at 2:57 PM  
Blogger tejas said...

I Think Whatever Happened In The Court Irritated You So Much That You Decided To Boycott Their Products. Actually I Also Support Boycott B`cause Mine Sony DVD Player Does Not Support Video File From Sony Digicam!
But Whatever, You Are My Inspiration Cuz I Am Also A Amateur Hacker:-)
God Bless You.

April 12, 2011 at 3:04 PM  
Blogger zaphod said...

Geohot isn't the reason they pulled it from the phats.

The hack was just a convenient excuse.

It's all about the money.

A ps3 that's not playing sony games is not earning sony money.

There were two reasons that it was put in. One was to get around import taxes, which was resolved. The other one was to keep the hackers away.

So they watched the hackers hack away on it. They patched the RSX hole quickly,and it seemed like otherOS was secure after all. So they decided they didn't need it, because the hackers tried to own it and for the most part failed. Therefore, their system can stand up to the hackers.

SO... gone from the slims... And we all know what happened then.

April 12, 2011 at 3:09 PM  
Blogger MG said...

George,

Now where you will head from here? Apple devices? Windows Phone 7 or Sony Xperia ;-)

April 12, 2011 at 3:31 PM  
Blogger William said...

@zaphod- I believe that you hit the nail right on the head with your point. Sony is in it for the money, not to please it's customers. It is great Geo is boycotting Sony products. Sony makes things that you need proprietary carp to use, and give the users no freedom. I will stick to my Xbox thank you very much. MS is strict, but Sony is taking the bullshit to another level.

April 12, 2011 at 3:39 PM  
Blogger marsheliman said...

I heard a while ago the removal of other os was due to tax purposes, if the ps3 was deemed a computer system it would be in a different tax bracket. Sony never updated their tax info from video game console to computer entertainment system. so actually they probably owe the IRS $$$$.

April 12, 2011 at 3:43 PM  
Blogger Faytxix said...

Why dd you betray your donators, graf, and Anonymous?

April 12, 2011 at 3:52 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Sony is definitely a messed up company! Also, the Sony fan boys piss me off A LOT! They freaking defend Sony FOR EVERYTHING!

Hey Geohot, do you know what they plan on doing with people's IP addresses? Are they going to do anything with them?

April 12, 2011 at 4:06 PM  
Blogger Mr Peace said...

George, stop lying brother. YOU'RE the reason why otherOS was removed, only a complete retard would believe Sony did it for any other reason. You were the one that boasted that you would jailbreak the PS3, and lo and behold Sony dropped it.

No matter how you spin it, you can't change the timeline or the truth.

April 12, 2011 at 4:07 PM  
Blogger Deep3r said...

@Faytxix he did not betray his donators he was one man against an entire company he was going to lose no matter how manu people in the "modding scene" had his back. Sony is a huge company with a ton of money, seriously it's like the movie 300.

Anonymous are a group that are pretty much Anonymous they were attacking Sony not exactly for GeoHotz rights but Anonymous is pretty much about the freedom of information and everyone should gain information but Sony tried to take that information back.

Geogre is shouldn't have been so public about releasing it, it almost seemed as if he wanted full credit.

Microsoft got burnt with the SMC exploit (JTAG) but yet if they tried to sue it'd be hard to find someone that's practically Anonymous, you ask EVERYONE with a modified 360 who created the JTAG hack and no one will know (maybe some but very selective) Team FreeBOOT didn't create the hack they just upgrade the patch files to stay up to date with the offsets and updates in the security. Also who do you know that's in Team FreeBOOT you'll still not know. If you stayed Anonymous Geogre this wouldn't have happened.

April 12, 2011 at 4:14 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

@MrPeace-But is it proper to remove a feature that was advertised? Isn't it considered false advertising to remove a feature like that? I personally never used the other OS feature, but there are people who used it, and there are people who bought the PS3 for the other OS feature.

I personally am upset with Sony for removing backwards compatibility for PS2 games. They promised to support it but they broke their promise.

April 12, 2011 at 4:17 PM  
Blogger Mr Peace said...

@George Your book analogy makes absolutely no sense. Copyright has absolutely no control over whether or not you can or may read the book upside down, or whether you can deface it, but it certainly dictates whether or not you may or may not copy the text, sell it, distribute it or even plagiarize it (stop spinning and trying to hide behind half-truths).

As for the PS3, you can paint the case pink, you can even spray paint it red, you could even gut the thing and mod the snot out of it to make it look like a fish tank, but the OS is covered under the DCMA and copyrighted. That you're not allowed to change, much like changing the text in a book and changing the original author's text, and then marketing it as yours.

Peace brother!

April 12, 2011 at 4:22 PM  
Blogger Mr Peace said...

@Icestar so they should have just let the PS3 be hacked? Granted that's eventually what happened, but don't you think legitimate users of PSN deserve no-cheaters, hacks and exploits while they're playing? Don't forget PSN is still free, and unlike Xbox live, if you're caught exploiting and cheating they'll blacklist your account and permaban you. Sony has yet to do the same.

Thing is, I think the hacking community can do incredible things and allow the PS3 to do awesome things, but it boils down to if script-kiddies use it primarily for exploits, piracy and annoying people on PSN, then how can I as a gamer support it. OtherOS seemed like it was a way Sony wanted hackers and modders to be able to test the system, but not in a way that it would affect PSN, whereas George couldn't give a rats ass, and just wanted the fame, so he made it clear he would hack the PS3 and circumvent security.

Hence, if you want to blame someone for OtherOS's removal, look no further than George Hotz.

April 12, 2011 at 4:32 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 12, 2011 at 4:39 PM  
Blogger svanheulen said...

What I'm more concerned about is that a lot of important things you should know when purchasing something are only defined in the EULA. Sony's data colelction pratices, the fact that the newest firmware is required to play the newest games, and that Sony can't modify your system at any time without your concent is only defined in the EULA. None of the documentation that came with my PS3 mentions any of that and I don't remember the EULA being displayed when I turned my PS3 on for the first time. I think the first time you see the EULA is when you install the first update.

April 12, 2011 at 4:39 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

@Mr Peace-
Online cheaters should be banned, I agree, and piracy is wrong, no question about it. Couldn't they just have released a patch to fix the security flaws of the other OS feature? I am not very knowledgeable about these type of things, but I do find it frustrating that Sony keeps removing features left and right. Maybe they could have released patches to fix any security flaw, but as I said, I am not very knowledgeable about these things. lol

April 12, 2011 at 4:41 PM  
Blogger Jean-Olivier said...

Sony should stop selling hardware and turn into a law firm instead.

April 12, 2011 at 4:42 PM  
Blogger svanheulen said...

@Mr Peace, It really has nothing to do with PSN. PSN is a network owned and operated by Sony and buying a PS3 gives you no right to use it, so they can do whatever they want to block people from PSN. What's not legal is that even if I don't have a PSN account I have to choose to keep OtherOS or be able to play that game that just came out, even offline. I paid for a system that lets me install Linux AND run all Playstation 3 format software, nothing on the box or documentation that came with it would lead me to believe otherwise.

April 12, 2011 at 4:47 PM  
Blogger shentino said...

Blaming geohot for PSN problems is like blaming a bumblebee when it stings an 800 pound gorilla that takes it out on you.

April 12, 2011 at 4:58 PM  
Blogger Alex said...

Geohot, you are my hero. Today is my birthday and if you could post a picture of you holding a sign that says "happy birthday Alex" I will be forever greatful.

Thanks,
Alex

April 12, 2011 at 5:09 PM  
Blogger A.B.D said...

so..what well happening now?
sony will be strong after that ..and no one can use custom in future,,
and , is will sony release PS4 ??

April 12, 2011 at 5:18 PM  
Blogger dan said...

it is time for everyone with a phat ps3 to take sony to court..if they want to inspect m y computer and ps3 go right ahead...but you wouldnt be getting my computer i use everyday, just a old one that has nothing on it. They play dirty, and its time for us to play dirty. They are not above the law like people think...anyone can be brought down, i dont care how much money you have...its time to continue on and fight sony, never give up and never surrender.. there time will come, people just can't give up.

April 12, 2011 at 5:22 PM  
Blogger ANDRES said...

I have a ps3 and although the psn is free the servers suck and they always get disconnected I rather pay for better service. I will not be purchasing any Sony products ever not because they sued Geo, but because they requested the IP address of people who accessed Geo's sites etc.

People have the right to look and learn that doesn't mean everybody who accessed his website hacked their ps3. Sony had no right doing that. Also looking at his PayPal accounts is dirty. Why do you need so much information? How is that relevant?

Sony you make crap expensive products anyways. Name one thing they make better than the competition.

April 12, 2011 at 6:00 PM  
Blogger italkalot1922 said...

Thanks for giving up George. Just because you took a little bit of money from them, doesn't mean you won. It doesn't mean that they will magically see that they were above the law. All they saw was you not having the nerve to end the law suit. Remember when you said that you weren't going to give up? Well you did. Thanks. Next time, just send me whatever it is you are gonna do and I'll post it and take the lawsuit and I wont settle on a little bit of money. I will fight till I either win or lose.

April 12, 2011 at 6:17 PM  
Blogger Ron said...

So I know how such thing (never ending court story) can affect the psyche and mental health of some individual who has much to lose. And there are many moments you want that this thing (meeting sony in court) never happened but in some cases you need to overcome these moments and fight till the end especially when I know that I did NOT done anything wrong.
I really respect your choice to fight against Sony in court but you discarded your choice to fight against them too soon because of the fears and difficulties you were faicing every day.

YOU George as an inidivdual are out of this psychological stress but how do you feel after this settlement. I am really sure you are NOT satisfied with this outcome of YOUR choice.

Such Companys like Sony with a huge megalomanic narcissistic character NEED to lose BIG and you had the possibility to get them there.

Man I am a little bit sad Sony didnt get raped back in court how the used to do with individuals like YOU and Alexander Egorenkov (graf_chocolo), with LAWs and at least with customers like all of us.

Will the details of the injunction (why) revealed soon or are they confidetial till they get leaked on wikileaks?!

And I think the donations should either be transferred to Alexander if he needs it or to Japans Earthquake/Tsunami/NuclearHolocaust - victims.


So no Sony Product for me anymore and will convice my friends to do/think the same.

Greetings from Germany

RonSon

April 12, 2011 at 6:46 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

Very well articulated. I have a feeling if they keep it up they will be facing more problems, eventually. I wonder if they even realize this is reflecting horribly on their entire company and not just their console division. Great blog post.

April 12, 2011 at 8:21 PM  
Blogger retroactive said...

"Sony you make crap expensive products anyways. Name one thing they make better than the competition."

Everything. Their have been problems obviously with a few things like their optical drives, and their gpu's solder points cracking (but less in scale their microsoft's problems in this area). The ps3 came with wifi with their launch models, xbox did not, ps3 had internal power source, the xbox 360 came with a massive external power source which by the way would put off so much heat it became a fire hazard. I have played both consoles long enough to say the ps3 is better.

However all of that is meaningless when the company who makes a product you like treats it's customers like criminals because of their natural curiosity you do not want to even own the product you have already bought, let alone by future products of theirs. I believe I am ethical to a certain point, and I do have morals... luckily I am a better man than I used to be otherwise I'd be doing things rather than saying these things. For everyone calling George a sell out, what are you doing to show sony how you feel about them... What?!? You still have their console in your home don't you, you still playing their system?

You still planning on buying their next console if it's good aren't you? If so, you're the fucking sell outs. Handing over money to the same corporation you say are violating rights, hurting innocent people in one way or another... yet you same pos' don't plan on doing anything about it.

April 12, 2011 at 8:35 PM  
Blogger Shawn said...

"On March 31,2011, Hotz met with SCEA representatives and the Parties entered
a confidential Memorandum of Understanding, agreeing to settle the dispute between
them. As a part of that settlement, SCEA and Hotz have agreed to the entry of this Final Judgment Upon Consent and Permanent Injunction ("Judgment") upon the stipulated facts"

Key Words: AS PART OF THAT SETTLEMENT

We only know what Sony got, and Sony wants to keep what Hotz got a secret so idiot Sony fanboys can pound their chests and the rest of you can mislabel Hotz as a sell-out.

Sony lost. on the 27th Hotz's legal team filed a VERY compelling motion to dismiss. It was found out that "Blinkmaniac" WASN'T Hotz (therefore Hotz's assertion that he's never created a PSN account is true), AND the final terms to SCEA's search of Hotz's hard drive were surprisingly in favor of Hotz. On top of all that, Hotz's maneuver of threatening to crack the Xperia Play (which would have been perfectly legal) drove SCEA and Sony proper to capitulate.

Now lets all focus on the OtherOS lawsuit:

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20110402000830503

You know, the where everything SCEA has stated has been a direct contradiction of what they said in the Hotz Case (IE in Hotz SCEA says having a PSN account amounts to Privity, but in the Class Action they say it doesn't. Or in Hotz SCEA says they're responsible for everything about the PS3 in the US, while in the Class Action they say they had no control of the decision to remove OtherOS), The same one where SCEA comes out and says everyone who used linux on their PS3 is a hacking scumbag.

Addendum: I find this here very interesting, bare with me folks:

http://technabob.com/blog/2011/03/26/condor-ps3-supercomputer/

The Air Force's Condor project goes online; ~1700 PS3's linked together, utilizing the cell processors to create one of the 40 fastest computers in the world.

Wait a second............

http://www.hpcwire.com/blogs/Air-Forces-PS3-Condor-Cluster-Takes-Flight-111297414.html
"It should be noted that Condor uses the old PS3 systems, not the new PS3 Slims. Sony made a decision not to support Linux anymore, so if the systems are given firmware upgrades, they won't be able to run the Linux OS anymore. They can't even be sent in for repair because the mandatory upgrade will render them useless to AFRL. Sony could choose to reverse the policy, and with the all the publicity around the Air Force's new wunder-cluster, they may just change their minds."


So if Sony is saying using Linux on PS3s is "Illegal" then that makes Condor Labs (by extension the United States Department of Defense) it's #1 Violator with over 1700 illegal systems in operation. So lets see Sony manning up and going after THEM.

Who wants to be blissfully ignorant and say Condor Labs DIDN'T Scoop up Hotz's code, for when one of these 1700 systems goes down and they have to replace it?

April 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM  
Blogger arsenalkiller said...

I guess the US Government can force Sony to give them the PS3 with linux support, and technical support.

When is about a nation vs a corporation, who think will win? Of course, the nation, because they have the power to ban for ever the ps3, and i would be pleased to read that.

April 12, 2011 at 11:04 PM  
Blogger Joseph said...

Has anyone mentioned also boycotting Sony Movies, Music, and TV?
Yes, lets also do this. It's not like anybody really liked those crap Spiderman movies.

April 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

@Joseph Well boycott paying for them anyway...

For instance, borrow a friends DVD who already owns it. That still legal?

April 13, 2011 at 12:17 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Something in the docs most people missed... The case is dropped vs ALL defendants not just GeoHot. - Just thought I'd include that bit.

April 13, 2011 at 2:56 AM  
Blogger Fike said...

Geohot, do you know what Sony are planning on doing with the IP's they've harvested?

And don't worry George, you have loads of us backing you, you are not alone.

It's almost like... I don't know, I buy a car and there's a problem with the petrol tank. They recall the car, but instead of fixing it they decide to remove the petrol tank and not replace it. Sounds silly, but in a way that's what they did.

I'm joining the boycott, it's bullshit they have control over the hardware and software we paid a good amount of money to use and do what we want with.

April 13, 2011 at 4:34 AM  
OpenID 972e63a0-65c6-11e0-8fd6-000bcdcb471e said...

SONY ALWAYS WINS BABY. YOUR BITCH ASS LEARNED THE HARD WAY MWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!

April 13, 2011 at 8:07 AM  
Blogger Nature boy said...

As much as i support your cause, calling for a boycott of Sony is a step too far. I won't be joining in the boycott and if the need arises (i occasionally buy Sony products) i will buy their products. All the best though:)

April 13, 2011 at 8:09 AM  
Blogger Ryan said...

Why are you following the OTHER OS lawsuits? I thought you would not settle unless they gave back our OTHER OS that they took away because of you and an apology on their website. So I guess this mean you went down like a $2 hooker when $ony wanted to settle. Why didn't you hold out for demands? What about all the people that sent you money? Not only did you not fight for what you promised. (If you saw it through, you would have won) You even let $ony raid your website, youtube and paypal so that they can sue or ban those people that gave you money. So you screwed them 3 times. First with the other os being taken away, next by taking their money and folding like a lawn chair and 3rd by letting $ony see all the IP's of your sites. Unbelievable!

April 13, 2011 at 8:55 AM  
Blogger Shawn said...

@Ryan,

Umadbro?

If the OtherOS class action lawsuit goes through and the plaintiffs (consumers) win, sony will have two choices, either compensate those who bought older model PS3s (which most likely be around $200US since that's around price difference between the older $600 doller model and the $300 dollar slim model) OR return the OtherOS feature to the older model PS3s, and amend the firmware so they can keep it.

That's $200 for nearly EVERY person who ever had the option to have OtherOS. Like I said in an earlier post, the US DoD has over 1700 of them. 1700x200= $340,000
alone. Just imagine how many PS3 units sold in 2008 and 2009, and all you'd need to do is show a proof of purchase and claim "hardship" over the fact you lost something you paid for.

Even with SCEA trying to hack the class down to half that number, it's still a big damn payout. Sony would have no choice but to bring back OtherOS and pay minor restitution to the named plaintiffs in the case, rather than go near bankrupt paying reparations to the PS3 nation.

Also: you have no clue what demands Hotz did or did not hold out for, the rest of the memo of understanding is still confidential. Hotz was in the dominant position going into the meeting on the 31st, so the fact that he's content with the settlement means Sony had to of made some concessions. Also the fact that we now know Sony's excuse for disabling OtherOS was because of hypervisor means Hotz got some questions answered in the meeting.

My guess is that they're going to bring back OtherOS, to save themselves from the continued embarrassment of this class action lawsuit.

April 13, 2011 at 10:34 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

If I were Sony, I'd bring it back on condition they can maintain security and encourage the hacking community to do so.

Example: I'm Sony and so I tell people, break in if you want as long as you tell us how you did it and how to fix it. Then both sides win. Sony gets a more secure console over time and we hackers get to test our knowledge free of repercussions and the consumer gets a better product.

Shawn said, "you have no clue what demands Hotz did or did not hold out for, the rest of the memo of understanding is still confidential." - Exactly, being it was dropped against all parties, I think that was probably part of the hidden terms.

April 13, 2011 at 10:49 AM  
Blogger iSao said...

WHAT YOU WANT, AN BASTARD HACKER SAYING SHIT, OR THE BEST COMPANY IN THE WORLD? I WANT PLAYSATION 4, i WANT NGP, i WANT SOME PEOPLE WHO DONT FUCK WITH MY GAME CONSOLE, AND DONT FUCK WITH MY ONLINE EXPERIENCE, I WANT SOMEONE WHO DONT FUCK WITH MY MONEY, FUCK YOU GEOHOT

April 13, 2011 at 11:35 AM  
Blogger zaphod said...

They will never bring back OtherOS unless they are forced to.

A ps3 running in otheros is not playing games or watching blu rays.

That's why they hate the suit so much.

That's why they are going after graf, who's only trying to return linux.

They don't want people buying new ps3 supercomputer clusters because it hits their bottom line.

They thought they were in the clear when they pulled it from the slims. And now this suit threatens to reverse their decision, and let people buy more ps3 supercomputer clusters at a loss.

April 13, 2011 at 2:59 PM  
Blogger zaphod said...

The razor and blades model breaks down when someone else is able to make good blades without you getting your cut.

April 13, 2011 at 3:08 PM  
Blogger Jilly said...

lmao @ iSao... u mad bro???

April 13, 2011 at 6:13 PM  
Blogger Krumpel said...

So as you don't need the support anymore, because there is no jurisdiction then, plz spend the donated money to graf_chokolo, who got raided again by the german Police and who really needs it.
He is fighting for our rights now

April 13, 2011 at 8:33 PM  
Blogger CyberMike said...

@Krumpel, Graf's fight is in Germany. He can't fight for your rights.

@ANGRY!Donators You gave your money away, you didn't sign a contract, or hire George. Stop acting like you did. Or, you know, do something about it [RageCrying on the Internet doesn't count]. Good luck with that.

April 14, 2011 at 12:25 AM  
Blogger Alfonso said...

hahahahahahah! dude, when you going to stop your whining!? you lost!! that's it! nobody cares about your "boycott"!!! go hack some Iphones or something else and leave the gaming community the alone! you suck at life!

April 14, 2011 at 3:32 PM  
Blogger richfiles said...

Post Part 1

I recently watched a PBS show called Electric Dreams. For a month, they took a family technologically back to 1970, and added each years advancements to the home at a rate of 1 year for each day, bringing them back to modern times at month's end. During the 1980s period, the family got an old 8-bit computer. The father and especially the young son were GLUED to that machine, trying to learn to program, trying to coax it into doing something that the previous day it hadn't done. I witnessed that hacker spirit shine through brilliantly, and made me reminisce about my youth, also spent in front of my old computers.

I had a Commodore PET, a TRS 80 CoCo 3, a Commodore 64, and a Commodore 128. I remember my time back then, spending hours to code some ridiculously simple target game with a light pen, a maze game, or a song to play for my parents or friends. I enjoyed it. Later in my own life, I moved on to my TI-85 and a Mac.

Of course I used the TI-85 for high school, but I mastered TI-BASIC and installed a hacked shell so I could run assembly language software. I programed a Mortal Kombat style game in BASIC for the TI-82, a breakout game for the TI-85, a 3D graphing plotter for the TI-85, and loaded ASM software, such as Daedalus which was a greyscale, textured, Wolfenstein 3D styled ray casting FPS. I overclocked my TI-85 from 6 MHz to 18 MHz. When the TI-86 came out, and I saw that it supported ASM out of the box, I was overjoyed. Texas Instruments had embraced the hacker community, and given us direct access to what we were hacking into on the previous generation product.

On my Mac, I used to LIVE inside HyperCard. Unlike the TI-85, I already felt Apple's cold shoulder freezing me out and turning further away from my kind. Macs had supported color for years. Hypercard was still stuck in a monochrome dead zone. If you wanted to do any scripting (it wasn't really programming per say), you had to pay, as what was included with the computer was only player software. The software was buggy, prone to crashes, and if you dared nest too many routines, you got the dreaded stack overflow error. I went online at a measly 14.4K at the city's office building, back when it was the ONLY place that had internet, and got 3rd party extensions to add color support and other unique functionality that the standard HyperCard software didn't have. I remember how the programming segment of the computer class at my high school looked. Since they used Macs, and the dominant software was HyperCard, all the programming was BW. I recall how the lab looked... BW, BW, BW, BW, BW, BW, BW, BW, COLOR!!!, BW, BW, BW, BW, BW. I was proud of that moment, a life raft of color in a sea of 21 BW computers. Hypercard died a silent death when that other Steve sunk that boat, after he returned to Apple and brought his closed magic box mentality with him. He took the computer and turned it into an APPliance. He controls the Apps you are allowed to have, he controls how you browse the internet. He's a control freak, and Sony is the only company that can compete with APPle's level of big brotherism and totalitarianism. 1984 wasn't like 1984, Orwell just jumped the gun and got the date wrong.

April 14, 2011 at 3:43 PM  
Blogger richfiles said...

Post Part 2

I will admit, I am enthusiastically nostalgic for my old programming days. That TV show stirred that up quite a bit. Watching GeoHot's struggle with the tech industries biggest bully just infuriates me. I remember a day when every computer you bought INCLUDED THE SCHEMATIC DIAGRAM in the manual. they EXPECTED you to potentially modify your machine, interface it to some unknown device, code your own code. The computer industry was CREATED by the very same type of people who it NOW SUES. When once you could make your own software, now you aren't even permitted to PLACE unapproved software on machines. This technological tyranny has to end.

We are only fed the bull that modern tech companies feed us. I watched a modern kid get enamored by a piece of primative 80's tech, and fully embrace the coder's creed, simply because it was provided. only 12 days away from his Playstation, and he already had unlocked that creative soul. Look at independent video games. How many of the PSN and XBL marketplace titles have turned out to be both independent, and absolute gems in terms of uniqueness, creativity, fun, and originality. Little Big Planet is a rare exception to the norm, where creativity is applauded, and look at the result. I've played virtual LBP2 Pin Ball that's more impressive than any REAL pin ball machine I've ever played! Save for LBP's little circle of contained creativity, the tech industry has taken away the ability for people to create, or even choose for themselves. What once was a rich and wide sea of individually created content, is now a jail, where we go to the same cells to do the same routines, and then risk dropping the soap in the same cold showers. Seriously, Sony needs to stop trying to bend it's customers over and it needs to stop flinging the "criminal" word around. It's offensive and disrespectful, and it's how they treat their customers... ALL OF THEM. Sony assumes we are all bad. They take Other OS away from everyone. They lock down EVERYONES machines. I'm sick of it.

There were already rumors of Other OS being ditched, even for the empty promises that Sony would keep Other OS. If I recall, they intentionally crippled the power available to the user in Other OS to prevent people from being able to have access to the PS3's full graphic capabilities in a PC OS environment. Bypassing the Hypervisor allowed, among many things, the capacity to utilize the full power of the PS3 hardware when running Linux under Other OS. This massively boosted the power available for PC software, including opening up entirely new avenues of CREATION capability to content creators that wanted to play with the PS3 hardware, but don't have the distribution and dev kits of large developers. These are not pirates. These are hobbyists that want to use the hardware they bought for the purpose they bought it for. This was a return to the early days where anyone could customize and create.

April 14, 2011 at 3:45 PM  
Blogger richfiles said...

Post Part 3

Have you used Sony's browser. Have you used their video player. They are trash. Come on now! The dedicated hacker hacks to enhance, to improve. The people I hate are the little script kiddies and mindless cheat downloaders who use other peoples work to create, distribute, or use cheats for games for an unfair online advantage. In all honesty, companies should always be checking the data from players online to make sure they aren't doing impossible things. You hate cheaters online, but off line, you spam restore health and no stars codes into GTA4 to have unsettling levels of fun wreaking havoc on Liberty City. No one complains about that, cause it's offline. Online hacks cheat people. People who do such idiotic things should be banned. No one gives a rats as$ about the offline cheater. Why do people not realize that there are those who want to "cheat" by using their own choice of browser, or media player, or their own choice of homebrewed games, or their own choice of OS. Is piracy possible, yeah, I'm certain it is, but it's lame. I buy my games used at GameStop. Sometimes, I find them online for cheap. I find a way to own them legit. What many people want, quite frankly, is a jailbreak for the the PS3. It's about more than piracy, more than cheating online, and more than showboating by hackers. Jailbreaking is serious business!

The word hacker has been tarnished by those idiots who download some code and use it for online cheating, or who ride the coat tails of creators to use it as an in to piracy. That gaming industry you love so much was built on the backs of the hackers you now hate. Those "homebrew" games you hear about are what the entire world of video games once was. A few programmers creating titles either on their own, and eventually for companies. A scientist in a lab creating "Tennis for Two" using analog circuitry and an oscilloscope. Setting up a "PONG" arcade in a bar and becoming instant millionaires over it. Developing a compact personal computer that could display "high-res" color graphics, in a garage... That eventually became the company that put 10000 songs in your pocket. iHope you can guess who they are!

Another thing I hate, is when I hear people say Sony removed Other OS because it was used to hack the PS3. People, I highly suspect that GeoHot didn't need Other OS to acquire the data for his exploit. It just was the simplest route. If I recall the early days of this whole thing, GeoHot used an FPGA chip with code to intercept internal signal inside his PS3. He had to solder the chip onto his PS3 motherboard. If my recollection is correct, then that's how he got the information to get access beyond what the hypervisor allowed. Using that technology, I suspect he or someone else would have cracked it eventually, even without Linux or Other OS.

April 14, 2011 at 3:47 PM  
Blogger richfiles said...

Final Post Part 5

There is a reason I hate Sony with all the hate I can muster. All their previous legal and privacy shenanigans have killed any trust or faith I might have ever have once mustered for them. "GTL-Balad of Gay Sony" Is my PSN comment. "Grand Theft Linux; The Ballad of Gay Sony" is my parody of the similar sounding Rockstar GTA DLC "Grand Theft Auto: The Ballad of Gay Tony". It will remain that way a long as Sony continues to STEAL features I paid for. I have also already made my protest in CASH. I have purchased a Nintendo 3DS, and will not put one penny toward the NGP. Deep down in my heart, I'm hoping the NGP fails as hard as the PSP did. I don't care HOW powerful their system is. I don't trust Sony anymore. I don't trust them enough for me to feel safe in buying an NGP. As a GameStop employee, I make an active effort to buy my games used. I get an employee discount, and my purchase does not send any additional revenue to Sony. I guide customers to the 360 and Wii sections when ever I have the opportunity.

I speak with my money and my customer's money.

As for the Anonymous attacks, once they realized their attack was impacting the PSN, they quickly withdrew to regroup their attack to focus on Sony corporate, and not harm the gaming community. Anonymous is dynamic enough to know when to back down. People like to FORGET that little fact. They are heroes to me, though they would say they're just doing it for the lulz. Truth is, they are pissed at Sony for their douchebagery. They repeatedly try to use the law as a tool for the invasion of privacy. Look at Sony's harassment of the public... anyone who has viewed a jailbreaking site, GeoHots site, or is part of the Other OS class action... Sony is trying to frighten people with massive invasion of privacy and heavy inconveniences (court venue, requesting personal data, regardless of whether it's valid to the case, etc). Sony's insanity MUST END!

The United States as well as countries around the world need to start enacting stronger consumer protection laws that need to protect people who buy products and allow them to use and share their uses of hardware how they deem fit to use that which they HAVE PAID FOR! I am sick of laws bought by corporations that turn their back on the spirit that founded them or the products they sell. I'm sick of copyright and patent trolls, I'm sick of abuses of the legal system, and I'm sick of companies bending the law to attack anyone who might get in their way.

Screw Sony.

I'm sick of Sony.

Sony can sink into the ocean for all I care... Then wat do?

April 14, 2011 at 3:58 PM  
Blogger mepeterser2451 said...

Mr. Peace, you can actually copy and distribute parts of a copyrighted item. Just remember to cite your sources.

EX:
Sony et al. 2010. Sony's PS3 Keys. Taken from geohot's PS3 on 10/18/2010.

April 14, 2011 at 4:28 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@richfiles - LOL, read my Atari 2600 post. You just inspired me to watch that show... I was born in 1979 and started programming on a TRS-80 with my first PRINT command at age 5. By age 7 I was using PEEK and POKE for direct memory access and wrote my own mini-RPG complete with opening animation written completely with PEEK and POKE.... ahh those were the day...

Your right about LBP and I know a dev personally that worked on it. It is an awesome company, but sadly they are tied to Sony via an exclusivity contract. (Many employees of many developers hate Sony due to the restrictions they put on them.) They orginally locked the PSP to 222Mhz, but when hackers opened and unlocked that 3rd party devs cried out and got results. The industry needs to make a stand. Don't enter exclusivity contracts with highly restrictive NDAs.

(Note: I do not work in the game dev industry but have several friends that do. Many are just as pissed as the rest of the hacker community at Sony on this. Why? Where do you think they got started? Most game developers don't have a degree. Think your worthy? Make a demo (if you can find a legal way you can actually afford :P) and submit it with your app and you'll get judged by your peers and get a good job if your coding skillz are L337 enough... :P

April 14, 2011 at 8:47 PM  
OpenID Ironmantrunxbw said...

Your an idiot

April 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

And your basis for that allegation?

Idiot - Psychology. a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25. - From Dictionary.com

Let's see last standardized official I.Q. Test I took (for school and later submitted to MENSA) said 155+. That's the 99th percentile on that Test, so...

Genius - a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an iq above 140. - Also from Dictionary.com

Well, I.Q. Tests and Standardized Aptitude Tests can be rather arbitrary and I've taken several in my lifetime (all putting me in the Top 1% of the population, which also puts me at double the MENSA requirement of 2%) including the ASVAB(for the military), SAT(for college), and the Wechsler Test in several forms.

Rather than make arbitrary emotional and unfounded statements. Please learn the meaning of the terminology you use in order to have a productive conversation if you are so capable.

April 15, 2011 at 5:44 PM  
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July 25, 2011 at 1:24 AM  
Blogger plasticcard said...

If I write a book and you buy a copy, do you own the words in the form I wrote them? No, the publisher and the author does, Indium and
Indium Ingot are nice, but i want to Learn Chinese in china. the same applies for Software, as it is just code, just a book of Computer language that brings about an image, etc.

August 13, 2011 at 2:56 AM  
Blogger Reeceloui said...

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October 25, 2011 at 9:44 AM  
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January 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM  

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