Wednesday, April 13, 2011

To Any Stronger than I...

If you'd like the legality of jailbreaking your PS3 resolved, file for a declaratory judgment on the issue. Keep it out of the ninth circuit, and you'll probably have a good shot. To anyone seriously considering this, get in touch with me.

123 Comments:

Blogger Paul said...

No one will, because they don't have the balls to do what you did. I applaud your efforts. Don't listen to the haters.

I actually thought you handled it well. There was really no way you were going to get them to surrender. Justice is defiantly blind......but it has a price.

April 13, 2011 at 11:04 PM  
Blogger Nelson said...

ill giv u 200 dollars if u fix my ps3

April 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM  
Blogger UltimateTechHelp said...

No one is going to have the money to hire lawyers again...u blew it u totally had them they were starting to lose confidence I really tought u werent going to give up u were popular enough and people would donate to u so it was everyone against Sony I don't want the money I donated to u back but no one is as popular as you to get people to donate to him/her...

April 13, 2011 at 11:21 PM  
Blogger Bryce said...

to be honest im 17, jobless, i dont have a car, kicked out of high school, and striving to go to college. I like most people don't have the resources to fight a battle like this.
Any money i do have will be going to a college. The best i could really do would tell my friends and family about this.

Public awareness!
Have the people behind you before you fight a cause like this.

Most people that play the ps3 only care about playing games on the console.
Most of them dont care about their rights. As long as they have their precious call of duty theyre happy.
Attacking sonys psn networks, making hacked game lobbys, and making their experience playing their console terrible is no better than what sony has done.
its just gonna make the average gamer hate the hacking community.

we went into this illprepared, and sony was rather well prepared.
we need to join together and plan this out better instead of tiny battles against sony that will go nowhere.

April 13, 2011 at 11:21 PM  
Blogger ultimatedood said...

Bryce, you should look at snagajob.com.

Geohot, I was unable to donate to you but I thank you for what you have done. You were fighting a media giant. It isn't easy and I wish you the best.

April 13, 2011 at 11:29 PM  
Blogger vitorgatti said...

Thanks for all your effort.
I'm trying to spread Sony's boycott in other websites like Kotaku, but it's difficult. People REALLY think that you are wrong and that Sony is right for removing OtherOS and suing you and the other German hacker.

WTF... n00bs.

April 13, 2011 at 11:55 PM  
Blogger Leo said...

bryce, try getting federal grants in financial aid. its paying my way through college for free + extra i get to keep. its not like loans, its actually free lol

April 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM  
Blogger Bryce said...

@leo actually paying for college isnt really the problem for me, its really all my other expenses car, food, rent, utilities, my parents said they would help me out with college if i need it. i still have no money to my name

@ultimatedood i looked at snagajob.com and it looks really promising, a lot better than craigslist or monster which usually have jobs for those alot more qualified. thanks a ton=]

if i was out of college and had a stable job with somewhat good pay $20/hr and up i would help the sony fight.
i just need to get my life together first

April 14, 2011 at 12:27 AM  
Blogger Draconic said...

And the room goes silent. Amazing how none of your critics have yet made their way to this post to slam you yet. Go figure. Maybe they're on their way to Graf's place so they can yell at him next.

April 14, 2011 at 12:40 AM  
Blogger fthaworld1223 said...

I'm down just need a sponsor

April 14, 2011 at 12:53 AM  
Blogger jelly said...

you totally screwed up
you was the only one who was closet to winning a war against sony ever in the history

you just gave up
nobody will ever win against them ever

you destroyed everybody's dream

April 14, 2011 at 1:00 AM  
Blogger Christian said...

Geohot come on maan y did u flea to south America you know that your going to be considered a criminal.!!! I bet u wanted the donations only to get enough money to go to south America I admired u until I found out that you even lied. Sony is right and they do good defending what's theirs.

April 14, 2011 at 1:08 AM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

Eh, it's been 10 years and the game has pretty much been the same.
http://www.salon.com/technology/feature/2000/08/07/yoink_napster
The RIAA/MPAA/Sony/(big content) are on the losing side of the war.
Not all battles are fought in courtrooms.
Despite DeCSS being declared "illegal", it's still everywhere.
So did the MPAA really win?

April 14, 2011 at 1:19 AM  
Blogger Bryce said...

@George Hotz you may say were winning but theres still fear in what we do. whether its streaming a movie from a torrent, or a programmer writing the code to stream that movie.

Although a company may seem greedy for protecting its property, they have nothing better to do.

theres still this giant gray area in the legal point of view, and most everything the hacking community does falls in the grey or black area.
this lawsuit would have helped clear up some of that gray area.
Nothing got done with the lawsuit between you and Sony, other than waste three months of time and a lot of money. we the people haven't gained anything and Sony seems to have gotten its way.

Its really just another cat and mouse game.

April 14, 2011 at 1:45 AM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Consumers don't seem to have much of a right these days, sadly. It seems to be all about these corporations.

April 14, 2011 at 1:49 AM  
Blogger George Hotz said...

@Bryce Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.

April 14, 2011 at 1:53 AM  
Blogger Bryce said...

@George Hotz thats the problem isn't it?

April 14, 2011 at 1:56 AM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Hey Geohot, do you have an official facebook page? you know, so I can keep track of your updates? I see some Geohot pages on facebook but I am not sure if any of them are yours.

April 14, 2011 at 2:00 AM  
Blogger Bryce said...

when the united states was was still the 13 colonies and Great Britain was taking their right and taxed them up the ass, the patriots didn't sit still and let them do it, they started the american revolution to fight what they thought was unfair.
And they made an entire country!

Sony is Great Britain and we're the patriots.
Are we really gonna sit back and let Sony win?

I understand that the lawsuit was to much for geohot, it would be for anyone.
but doesn't mean we should stop trying.

April 14, 2011 at 2:05 AM  
Blogger ThePirateKid said...

@Icestar so Truu

@Geohot seriously the only fact is that the DMCA is only a tool to be manupilated by evil coporations like SONY against hackers who try to make use of the technologies that are provided, and INNOVATE... Something SONY DOESN'T HAVE MUCH OF!

April 14, 2011 at 2:06 AM  
Blogger PhoenixV5 said...

'Sometimes the only winning move is not to play.'

Wargames?

BTW how much is this gonna cost anyway?
Anything I can do from outside US (India infact)!

April 14, 2011 at 2:32 AM  
Blogger PhoenixV5 said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 14, 2011 at 2:36 AM  
Blogger Faytxix said...

http://ps3.dashhacks.com/2011/04/13/grafs-gear-gets-confiscated-again


Graf once again shows how much of a coward you are for settling, why can't you press sony hard like he did?

April 14, 2011 at 4:04 AM  
Blogger gopal said...

@George Hotz
your all work on iphone was awesome.
i did not worked on ps3 ever but i seen your old stuff in iPhone.
i try to contact with you on your google id but no response.

one thing i wanted to ask 3g nck bf u posted long time go its for ltoken and rsakey2 we need to bf 8 digit code 00 in start 5 digit nck

its possible to extract seczone or clone with need nck? you posted ltoken_test for your phone also if u can make seczone already with ur own nck why not make tool to generate legit seczone for other users?

what about i4 story of nck i seen some dev team guy doing and continue your research because they are not able to exploit any at command any more.
i4 have what type of seczone its still have itoken and rsakey2 or they changed everything?

your limera exploit was awesome man hands off to you.
you are true genies guy at very small age.

question are
is there any way to send atcommand at iphone via usb?
is there any way to dump seczone locked and after unlock i mean dumping seczone.?
is there any way to send or talk with you about 2 command i found?
which can be exploit if you really want to work on i4 and if u don't have them.

i know u are master of iphones but we just want to continue from your work..

when u gonna release sony X10 solution? i know u made it already.

Regards to my friend GEO

April 14, 2011 at 6:00 AM  
OpenID makemeunsee said...

I wonder just how many haters and Sony supporters use a jailbreaked iphone...
So much hypocrisy and stupidity, makes me wanna puke...
Let's keep on fighting, any way we can.

April 14, 2011 at 7:27 AM  
Blogger retroactive said...

"Sometimes the only winning move is not to play"

hahahahaha @ Wargames reference. Nice.

April 14, 2011 at 7:36 AM  
Blogger Mr Peace said...

Wait, so after pissing away the donations, you want these people to give you money and support again? Hahahahahaah! You're a joke George. A fucking joke!

April 14, 2011 at 7:38 AM  
Blogger ARVI said...

I'm definitely going to boycott Sony and help everyone else do the same. Been working on a cloud that bypasses Sony servers and connects straight to the game servers, allowing online play against everyone on PSN, with trophie updates and game stats. No reason to access PSN for multiplayer anymore, just cleaning things up....

Studying hardware next.... Really don't care about being sued, I have nothing...

April 14, 2011 at 7:53 AM  
Blogger Andy said...

Geohot... You're like the awesomest hacker ever. Someone needed to stand up to Sony and you have sent a message to the companies, as well as hackers and crackers.

April 14, 2011 at 7:56 AM  
Blogger Lucas said...

I am very disappointed in how many of you are reacting to this case. Openly condemning a corporation for protecting their interests is simply deplorable, and then you treat this as a giant game. If you really believe that Sony swindled the legal system, then play by the rules in return, for two wrongs do not make a right. Also, if you really want to justify yourself, show us these otherOS advertisements, for as far as I am concerned, it was a feature that just happened to be there, but never advertised by Sony. It is a feature for a minority, so it is rather easy to understand why they would not grandstand the feature, but still, if they did not advertise it, half your argument is gone.
And for everyone that claims they do not have anything, you are proving those that oppose George by showing yourselves as people with nothing to lose, and in turn, arrogance.
Please see the reality, Sony won, the only way for George to have won was if he went to court and the judge ruled in his favor. Sony settling shows maturity and rationality, and their distaste for George's hack shows foresight. All George released were angry messages that reminded me of Malcolm X speeches, irrational and petty, without anything to believe in but violence. His side was so thoroughly dramatized that it appeared as nothing but a poor joke, especially with a certain youtube video.
Internet speech does not work in the real world and you proved that to great extent with this case. If you want true support, you have should have appealed to the masses, not exclusively with your peers in a forum manner.
People claim you as strong, but you were forced into a lawsuit, and then gave in, on your website you even ask "Is Sony willing to settle?" You were running away from the start, you never truly understood what the law dictates.
Create something from nothing, and you will understand the significance of the laws you despise.

April 14, 2011 at 8:24 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

Where I draw the line is the distribution. He gave away both a private firmware and the keys, albeit half the work was done for him. Again, I'm taking Sony's side because I knew it would happen. As I said, it's like standing on a train track. You know the train is coming, so if you don't move out the way, why should anyone help/care? Did people really expect Sony to do nothing? And as far as I'm concerned, Sony's scare tactics worked. It's not like the PS3 homebrew scene came up with anything worthwhile. Look to the Wii for that.

If people had a legitimate reason for the homebrew applications, I'd be fine with it. As far as I can see, the only worthwhile things released are piracy-enabling material. No music backgrounding tools, no feature unlocking/save exporting homebrew, no custom drivers or reversed Move drivers, no 3D enabling in the menu, no bravia media playback enhancement dumping, no BD extraction, no custom XMB's, and the list I could come up with could go on - so tell me then, what was the point all these "hackers" were trying to prove? That they could enable piracy/homebrew/console emulation but then not do much else, it's still very much a locked console because no one wants to put the effort for anything but producing proofs of concept.

The only thing worthwhile from this entire fiasco was a signed permanent TN-D and VSH.

April 14, 2011 at 8:40 AM  
Blogger Andy said...

@George Hotz said "Sometimes the only winning move is not to play."

come on.... you stole this from the movie War Games after the computer played tic-tac-toe millions of times with itself, oh and global-thermonuclear-war.

April 14, 2011 at 8:47 AM  
Blogger mikey said...

@geohot please don't stop jailbreaking the iPhone and iPods though even though you can't post the ps3 jailbreaks dosnt mean you can't keep our 4.3.1 ipods jailbroken man you are my idol dude forget all the bitches that's go against you they are just stupid for doing that now I have a shitty jailbreak on my iPod cause it's not stable I downgrade my iPod firmware just to have your stable jailbreak but don't worry bout the people wanting a jailbeak for the firmware the day it comes out I don't care if it's a year after the firmware came out it's ok with me either way just keep on doing jailbreak for the iPhone and iPod please and the 1on1c jailbreak sucks trust me you are the pro At making jailbreaks Btw I joined the Sony boycott

April 14, 2011 at 8:52 AM  
Blogger Holypuma said...

@XxRaVeNxX Not everything is piracy related... THE PS3 WAS UNLOCKED FOR LINUX AND HOMEBREW!!!! We've got that now, stop being an ungrateful, smug bastard.
And another thing, how could you side with SONY? I mean you just admitted to having a brew-enabled PSP... They are infringing on our rights, and as a person of the homebrew community you take their side? Do us a favor and leave.
BTW I know I just fed the troll. /rant

Anyway on topic, @George Hotz... I would love to fight for my rights in court, sadly I don't have the money or the backing to do so.

April 14, 2011 at 8:52 AM  
Blogger The_Underscore said...

When you buy a PS3, you own it. When you hack your own PS3, this is not morally wrong. When you tell others how to hack their PS3s, it is not wrong either. You should be allowed to mess even with the software on it in any way you want as long as you don't make the software publicly available. That simple. It doesn't matter (for this case) if they advertised OtherOS or not.

April 14, 2011 at 8:56 AM  
Blogger curtis said...

As much as i love to see homebrew on the ps3 and be able to back up ps3 games and the other os, You can understand sony's reasons for all of this, i mean they are protecting the PSN, I love playing online, just not with hackers. And calling Sony evil corporations i can't understand, they were the ones that sold us a $800 ps3 for $600, and free online play, sony cares about quality in their products. The companies i call are evil are Microsoft, EA, and Walmart, cause they all have one thing in common....They want to own everything, they try to monoplize things, Sony has never stoop to that level, so calling them evil just because they are soo serious towards the hackers and anti-priacy, i kinda like that it keeps PSN playable. I just wanna clear that up

April 14, 2011 at 9:06 AM  
Blogger mikey said...

@Curtis I understand what you are saying but do you understand how Sony treats their customers that's the big question here

April 14, 2011 at 9:10 AM  
Blogger curtis said...

@mikey i understand yall are pissed about the other os thing, but technically they didn't take it away unless you had to have PSN on the same console, people should have done what i did, use one for other os and the other for PSN, Heck the update even warned you what was going to happen if you update it told you what options you have, if you didn't want to lose other os don't update.

But which the hacked console i kinda wished yall have some way to do something decent like google chrome on the xmb, cause their browser sucks

April 14, 2011 at 9:21 AM  
Blogger shentino said...

Geohot if I had a day job to fall back on I'd jumo at the chance.

I know about Galoob v. Nintendo

Please folks! Anyone that has the resources to survive, possibly with donations, do it and get busy. Geohot's cause must not be in vain.

April 14, 2011 at 9:44 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

GeoHot, i respect what you have done in the scene, what makes me lose a bit of respect for you however, is your inability to recognize anyone else in the scene, in none of your video's did you ever thanks anyone, you didn't have to mention anyone by name, but you could have said ""I managed to get this far, due to the work of others"", but instead of doing that, you have led many idiots to believe that it was you that hacked the PS3, when in fact it wasnt.

April 14, 2011 at 10:07 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Shut the Fuck Up...No One Cares what you Think

April 14, 2011 at 10:21 AM  
Blogger HCEM ROCK said...

I just advertise your blog here in Brazil via twitter www.twitter.com / mmonline

April 14, 2011 at 10:23 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

XxRaVeNxX you still molesting children ???

April 14, 2011 at 10:24 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Are you still banning people from ps3hax when they have a different opinion than you?

April 14, 2011 at 10:26 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

XxRaVeNxX lol it wasnt me that banned you, try getting your facts right and if i banned people that had a different opinion than me, every single member would be banned.

April 14, 2011 at 10:28 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Then have your staff needs to grow the fuck up...It's ok PSX-scene has more intelligible member base anyways, been there since 04, and they can have a conversation without crying ban hammer...

April 14, 2011 at 10:29 AM  
Blogger V3 said...

@Bryce...
You sir need to go back to school. Talking about American Revolution being the same as Sony vs GeoHotz agenda. Short version America did not like the idea that they had no representation on Parliament. Last I checked Sony is a public company. You could join them and change their policies if you so choose. IT was IMPOSSIBLE for the colonies to have a voice in Parliament. Sad thing about today's generation which I'm sadly part of... they don't know anything about America's history.

GeoHot, I'm surprised you decided to settle out of court. Seriously you had an f'n post about what it would take for you to settle. Didn't you post this a while back?

"What if SCEA tries to settle?
Lets just say, I want the settlement terms to include OtherOS on all PS3s and an apology on the PlayStation blog for ever removing it. It'd be good PR for Sony too, lord knows they could use it. I'm also willing to accept a trade, a legit path to homebrew for knowledge of how to stop new firmwares from being decrypted."

Sad how the settlement ended in Sony's favor for the most part. In truth man I will never support anything you do again cause you couldn't HACK it. You have a bunch of supporters pulling for you but all you did was post a lame rap video, garnered money (so you could pay off lawyers cause you don't have the cash yourself), and Anon backing. So honestly dude why did you back off? Why did you settle? Cause you're chicken. A one time celebrity who can't back up his words. Sad day and a sad excuse of a hacker.

April 14, 2011 at 10:31 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

XxRaVeNxX lol your ban was only temporary, it expired ages ago.

April 14, 2011 at 10:32 AM  
Blogger Andy said...

to those of you who say "Sony never advertised" the otherOS. What's the difference between advertising it and just including it? I say, nothing. It was there!!! Is there some law (that you're referring to) that if a feature is advertised then it must be continually supported? Ridiculous. Also Sony still maintains the installation instructions to install otherOS on their site here: http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/osinstall.html

April 14, 2011 at 10:34 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Actually, that shows how much you guys as staff communicate to each other, and how disorganized you are. Someone IP Banned, my name isn't banned, but my IP isn't...If you want a screenshot with a time stamp, I'd be happy to oblige...

April 14, 2011 at 10:34 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

XxRaVeNxX change your IP :p

April 14, 2011 at 10:36 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Nah, I'm good...I'd rather stay at psx-scene and psgroove, its obvious ps3hax are crybabies...who doesn't want to listen to anyones opinion other than there own...

April 14, 2011 at 10:38 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

XxRaVeNxX lol it would be awesome to have a conversation with you, but your own opinions conflict with each other, you moaned on one forum that you didn't like what anonymous was doing and on another forum, you were promoting it, now you explain to me how the hell anyone can take any of your opinions serious, when you don't even know what your opinions are.

April 14, 2011 at 10:41 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Like I said before, it doesn't constitute an IP ban...you guys need to get over yourself


@EVERYONE http://www.ps3hax.net/ is a joke! Everyone support http://psx-scene.com

April 14, 2011 at 10:44 AM  
Blogger V3 said...

@Andy
Another person who does not understand the... "change is inevitable and will happen." Most if not all terms of service has this silver lining to them. I mean Live gold was advertised at 50 now it's 60. iPhone 3GS launched and advertised MMS. It didn't happen until like september of that year due to ATT. Speaking of which they changed their ETF (which is a joke) and data plan options. Just cause something was there or advertised does not mean there is a possibility it will be taken out (whether it made sense or not). You don't like it then get a job at SCEA and move up to the position that makes these types of decisions and be happy. It's common practice.

April 14, 2011 at 10:45 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

The ban was for being an annoying cunt and as i said, it was only temporary, the only person that is a joke is you, you are the one that supports and doesn't support something at the same time, now that is just dumb.

April 14, 2011 at 10:46 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@GregoryRasputin Actually you dip shit. Everyone thinks they are infallible at that site..Fuck Off. It wasn't temporary despite what you say..

April 14, 2011 at 10:49 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

lol XxRaVeNxX yawn......

April 14, 2011 at 10:54 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

lol GregoryRasputin faggot

April 14, 2011 at 10:56 AM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

XxRaVeNxX really, you resort to calling me an item of food, really what is wrong with you, bother me when you actually know how to insult me...

April 14, 2011 at 10:58 AM  
Blogger XYX said...

@GeoHotz
hey man, hope things are well, just been reading up on your efforts and the case etc, glad it turned out ok and you didnt get too screwed. just wondering if you had Brickslamps email? i was curious about why he's 'still smiling' and what might result because of all this, hit me up with a mail? greg.kirk0@gmail.com peace

April 14, 2011 at 11:06 AM  
Blogger Isaac356 said...

@Mr Peace I'm sorry, where in his post did he ask for money? Troll elsewhere.

@Everyone Please stop asking geohot for Xperia Play, X10, etc. solutions. You do realize that he can't hack those now, right? (Thankfully it was only one comment this time, but the last few threads made me cry)

April 14, 2011 at 11:13 AM  
Blogger Tony said...

Look Lucas.. OtherOS WAS advertised in the past. Not as a sole feature of the system. But in conjunction with others the system offered. The proud owner of a new PS3 will be able to do this, this, that, and install another os with OtherOS, etc.. that sorta thing.

Look, the class action suit regarding that feature is very legit and I will follow that as well as the news regarding the Geohot vs Sony debacle. Yes, there will still be news about it. Although I myself and many others are sorely disappointed that George took a settlement on this. To be honest, to ask for money to support his legal needs and then end it the way he did is simple a slap in the face to the community. That is a fact. And I can tell you that nobody will take up the fight from where George left it simply because nobody has the resources or the need to do so. So unless something else happens it will probably stay where it is now.

I have been a loyal Sony follower for years, blindly, because I loved their game systems, PS3 included. However, the way Sony conducts their business is indeed a slight on all who purchase their products. Their reasoning for claiming that even though you purchase their products they still own them is ridiculous. Plain and Simple. And at some point, somebody will fight that, and win. Just not now, and not here. But mark my words.. this philosophy will not last long.

While I disagree with Geohots reasons for killing the case, I can say that I have no knowledge of what was happening behind the scenes. All I know about is what was made public. So who knows what pressures were placed upon him to make him decide that this settlement was the best course of action. I surely do not. I am just saying that I do not agree with it.

Because it ended as it did, this "war" between hackers/makers and Sony (and others like them) will surely continue. It is a shame that it did not end with this to put some sort of line in the picture. But what can you do. I will follow this and othe similar stories as I always do on my site, diversebydesign.net but the story here might be ended. All that has to happen is for George to drop out of the scene for a bit and a lot of this "heat" will die down. But if he sticks around, the questions will continue to surface, as will the assumptions.

Some of what some people say is just plain funny. Some sad, and some just stupid. People need to use some common sense when discussing such matters.

Sorry.. I have made some comments in a general tone towards some people in this reply. I apologize. Either way, we can all have a laugh, can't we now?

April 14, 2011 at 12:29 PM  
Blogger Brat said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 14, 2011 at 1:20 PM  
OpenID d99bcdd8-4201-11e0-ba74-000bcdcb8a73 said...

did someone seriously just compare hacking the PS3 to THE BIRTH OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA???

this is the level you people are going to, in effort to justify your actions.

holy shit.

April 14, 2011 at 3:26 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@ XxRaVeNxX - "it's still very much a locked console because no one wants to put the effort for anything but producing proofs of concept." You obviously don't understand the difference between developer and hacker. While one can be both, a hacker's primary goals are learning and challenging themselves, so once they get in, goal accomplished. Close the hole and they'll start again. It's developers that make content. I fall more under this category and want dearly to make content for the PS3, but without full RSX access what do you expect? A new Tetris clone? Ports of 1980's-1990's games? Development is more attractive on PSP/Wii due to GPU access and on 360 (for a small fee) due to M$ support for indie devs(currently working on a title to publish there myself).

Give us developers a legitimate(not under a very restrictive NDA + a cost of thousands of $$$) path and we will take and then people would see what the PS3 is capable of besides just games. You want it to do everything Sony? A legit brew path does just that, because if it doesn't do it some will make, "an app for that".
(P.S. Think there would be so many iOS apps if the iPhone hadn't been jailbroken?)

April 14, 2011 at 3:34 PM  
Blogger Bryce said...

@V3 i honestly hate people that nit pick lil shit like that. and i am in a highschool and just got done learning us history. i knew that the colonies didnt like taxation without representation, but they still fought for what they felt was right.
if the patriots back then never fought for what they believed in we wouldnt have america now would we
if we dont fight for our rights we will not have any!

honestly to walk into sony and change theyre policies i would need a masters or higher to become a ceo for them, and even then its highly unlikely that the board would let me do something like that.
and its not just sony its every corporation out there.
they all think we are mindless drones that are gonna buy their products.

geohot did all he could do as one person, but it wasnt enough

April 14, 2011 at 3:39 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

The birth of the US is often cited when abused of citizens/customers/etc... are concerned. It is an extreme example but not entirely irrelevant("No taxation without representation", we bought it shouldn't we get a say in what we can do with it?)

April 14, 2011 at 3:44 PM  
Blogger Shawn said...

I'm not happy to see that you settled out of court but i know why you did it. Your 21 and being in court isn't how you want to spend your twenties.

Anyway, way to bring this shit into the light.

Supported you all the way through it Hotz.

April 14, 2011 at 3:58 PM  
OpenID d99bcdd8-4201-11e0-ba74-000bcdcb8a73 said...

@Kreationz

no, i "get" it.

but, it's on a Sarah Palin / Republican-level of conjecture.

same goes Anonymous using the words "targets" and "attacks". making the hacking community look like straight up terrorists. how long before someone who's lost his mind, reads into the language used here (and other sites), and ACTUALLY hurts someone?

if people really want to fight Sony, or large corporations in general, and not look like douchebags in the process, the first step might be to grow up and use mature arguments.

April 14, 2011 at 3:59 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@GeoHot - "Some times the winning move is not to play." - Thanks for confirming what I thought about what actually happened.

@All - It went like this, Sony had a greater chance at victory, but more to lose so they wanted to call it quits. GeoHot had less to lose than Sony, but a MUCH greater chance of losing. I say this due to the fact the agreement was reach March 31st on the day before he was due to let them have access. This means there was likely damaging evidence on his "storage devices" (His PS3, PC's, etc...). They likely were allowed to remove it from those devices as part of the sealed agreement, so they only got access after they dropped the suit and couldn't re-initiate it. His only choice was to settle or fight. He chose to cover his ass, but probably what he got (besides not being sued) was to keep the damaging evidence out of the court system (I hope not using the gained "evidence" in the CAS was part of the agreement). This stuff is sealed because, not being able to use that evidence makes Sony look bad and make them look "soft" which they didn't want. The ninth circuit is horrible where consumer rights are concern (hence wanting a change of venue). Things were likely about to take a very bad turn and GeoHot settled before it could happen. I agree with the settlement and you took it as far as you could(showing Sony and others an individual is willing to fight), but lost the fight in the end due to not wanting it to set a bad precedent....

He who fights and runs away... at this point GeoHot's only recourse is a boycott. It may not be much, but if that's his only current ammo, then so be it.

I may be only able to throw pebbles at Goliath, but one just might take an eye out which will make the next guy's fight a bit easier. We may have gave Geo more pebbles (our donations were a drop compared to Sony's resources), but this time pebbles just weren't enough.

It's a case of pick your battles, the CAS has a better chance of winning (donate to them if you want to donate to a case that's on better legal ground and keeping Sony on the defensive, or better yet join it), but if you want a case with a snowball's chance like this one, but at least will go down with a fight(this why many are upset/disappointed with Geo), donate to Graff. He has fought and is continuing the fighting even after multiple police raids.

P.S. Not upset with Geo myself, but I'm looking at the bigger picture.

April 14, 2011 at 4:08 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Extra Note: IANAL (I am not a lawyer), I don't have access to the sealed agreement, and finally, the prior post was speculation and an inference based on available information and timing but nothing certain.

April 14, 2011 at 4:14 PM  
Blogger Babkockdood said...

I'm all for it.

April 14, 2011 at 4:16 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

BTW, if you ever want to chat Geo, let me know and I'll find a secure way to do it.

April 14, 2011 at 4:20 PM  
Blogger David said...

The PS3 was one of the first consoles to have the ability to run linux. it was a great step towards the future. But sadly, you had to go try grow your rep. You tried hacking through other OS. thus sony shut it down on all PS3s.

Now, you know what? No-ones gonna want to put linux support on their consoles. This is why we can't have nice things.

April 14, 2011 at 5:11 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Yup, they gave us Linux with 1/10th of this awesome piece of hardware's power and expected us as hackers/devs to not try and unlock the full potential of a Super Computer in our living room. (It like giving SuperCars to a group mechanics and limiting them to going 25 instead of 250, and not expecting them to try and find a way to go faster. Then taking away the whole car you gave them and saying sorry one of you found a way to go faster. It' just not reasonable.)

April 14, 2011 at 5:25 PM  
Blogger [ jlc ] said...

Fuck U geohot. Give me my donation back... you sellout.

April 14, 2011 at 5:33 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Yeah, because going forward with a losing case that would likely kill our rights permanently is a good idea... (Think before you speak next time.)

April 14, 2011 at 5:38 PM  
Blogger zaphod said...

@Kreations. Actually they expected it to get hacked. they were after free security testing. once they decided the hackers tried enough and failed, they thought they no longer needed it, and pulled it to save money.

They never wanted to put it in, but considered it a requirement to keep the hackers away form the main os, which they weren't sure was secure enough from them.

THey got cocky afterwards and pulled it. Sony was looking for a reason to pull it from the phats too. Geohot was simply a very convenient scapegoat. Pulling it was useless, because anyone capable of hacking would simply keep it.

Open you eyes, people!

April 14, 2011 at 5:45 PM  
Blogger Thomas Cain said...

@Kreationz: To be honest, I think that the mythical Hydra is a better description of Sony than Goliath.

April 14, 2011 at 6:21 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

The hackers are more like a Hydra, you strike one down and two more pop-up... so saw too many popping up and that likely gave them motivation to let Geo off a bit easier(no restitution, etc...).

April 14, 2011 at 6:39 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

This comment has been removed by the author.

April 14, 2011 at 7:04 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

Geohot, are you going to post a new blog today?

April 14, 2011 at 7:40 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

BTW, I'm from Texas and I quote, "Remember the Alamo!". It's the most famous battle in Texas history(in the Texas vs Spain revolution when we seceded from Mexico), but we lost... Why was it so important? Because it gave time for the rest of our army to gather together, without them standing their ground and eventually losing the battle, we would have lost the war and still be part of Mexico today most likely. We lost and yet the battle decided the war. The point is we may have had a defeat here(like the Alamo), but we won a lot of media attention and the fact many are still talking about this is a good thing. Also, all the bad PR Sony got from picking on a single talented individual, to demonizing Linux users, to the 3.56 Rootkit, to plain-text transmission of private data across PSN, to(well I could continue this list a while), is a clear victory for us. The truth shall set you free...

As Sony would say, "One hacker down", but what they didn't mention in the press brief was hundreds if not thousands to go(many you will never even hear the name of, sometimes that is good and sometimes not, publicity brings discussion and change, but creates it's own issues as well).

April 14, 2011 at 8:02 PM  
Blogger Icestar said...

To the people who are hating on Geohot for settling with Sony:

Can you blame him for settling? I don't blame him at all. Going against a huge electronics corporation is really stressful and a huge burden. What would you have done if you were in Geohot's shoes? I doubt any of you would have continued to fight a huge corporation.

April 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM  
Blogger zaphod said...

Also, keep in mind that he got everyone ELSE off the hook when he settled, and any further action against him by sony is going to be kept out of the 9th circuit, where he was going to lose.

April 14, 2011 at 8:40 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@zaphod - Unless it's a violation of the public part entered in to the record(I.E. No hacking Sony stuff)... at least as far as I understood the legal ease of it(IANAL).

April 14, 2011 at 9:13 PM  
Blogger john said...

I'd donate to a lawsuit fighting for the right to jail brake any device.

April 14, 2011 at 9:17 PM  
Blogger Kidd Tr30tik said...

I think hacking on the PS3 could have went far. What most people don’t understand is that not every hacker has the intentions of pirating… It may lead to it (unfortunately, it also gives all hackers a bad name right away) but not every hacker modifies their consoles to pirate. Good luck Hotz on whatever project you have next.

April 14, 2011 at 9:19 PM  
Blogger Max said...

Are you still wanting to get back at Sony?

Coding blog
max-michaels.blogspot.com

April 14, 2011 at 11:05 PM  
Blogger Jonathan Seals said...

Let's get a class action lawsuit going against them for both what they did to you and how faulty their systems are because of their thermal compound.

April 15, 2011 at 12:41 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@Jonathan - He's likely barred from counter suing due to the "confidential" agreement. Also, it would be better to join with the 3.21 OtherOS law suit. BTW, here's the docket for that case: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/candce/3:2010cv02612/226894/

April 15, 2011 at 12:58 AM  
Blogger XxRaVeNxX said...

@Kreationz

Aside from your obvious attempt at getting a reaction out of me ... how many of the things I listed in my previous post require any development? Actually, piracy requires development. The other things I mentioned are all the work of a hacker/extractor. I know the difference very well, thank you very much.

But that's irrelevant. I don't for a second believe that you were trying to educate me over anything.

P.S. Notice the quotation marks around hackers. I don't actually think of them as hackers at all, more like code junkies. They had the way paved for them.

April 15, 2011 at 8:45 AM  
OpenID Bobby West said...

Sony is a corporation that needs to make money and make quality porducts. WHy not attack companies like Microsoft with the 360 which requires paying for online and has a much more restrictive console. Why not attack the numerous other companies that do similar things since they want to make money which is the purpose of a company. I think singling out Sony is a bad thing to do. I am not exactly disagreeing about the concept, just that singling out Sony is a flawed way to go about it.

April 15, 2011 at 10:02 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@XxRaVeNxX

It wasn't about a reaction, although your posts GregoryRasputin did show a certain level of immaturity(I don't care what he did on another site and he is no less guilty, but does it mean stoop to that level?). While I believed and still do you understood the difference between the two, many don't.(While directed at you, it was just as much directed at them.) I even agree with you to an extent. If Sony hadn't taken anything away they originally gave me at time of purchase, I would have the same opinion as you as to GeoHot releasing what he did and how he did it. If they had given us a path for Homebrew, this would be a completely different conversation. Take away my rights and I'll take them back. (P.S. In the case of Sony giving me back what I paid for. I'll be the first to help them to try and fix piracy related holes in the system and for free. I want companies that respect my rights to be successful, otherwise I'd love to them go bankrupt tomorrow.)

I have no respect for the law(at least in the USA the way it is set up the system is inherently flawed because the people have little to no recourse against laws that are unjust), but I don't speed, because I agree with the principals of public safety. I don't pirate because I believe in devs getting paid for their work and in companies investing in it. I don't follow laws I don't agree with. I am an individual that makes decisions and acts upon my principles. 99% of the time laws are designed to protect the public at large, but even the other 1% should never be tolerated(I don't think the DMCA was a bad idea, just poorly written and implemented, I follow it in principle, but not in letter).

April 15, 2011 at 10:15 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Second, as long as it remains "closed" you won't see anything worthwhile from the brew scene. It has to be Opened before that can happen and that's in it's infancy. Once we have either full CFW w/RSX access(Hopeful on this) or if Sony gives us Linux(Hopeful, but believe it has a snowball's chance in...) w/RSX access(even more doubtful on that) you will see the flood gates open, check out XLIG (Microsoft provides a legit path), Droid (it was open from the start), PSP (It's cracked wide open already), Wii(Also wide open). Simply put closed = no innovation(by anyone without a ton of $$$, hardware, and a license) and no brew(see first half). Sony with Linux gave us a promise of Openness(Linux itself is open), but when more was sought, they bricked the door up completely rather than just fixing the lock. Why? Because they didn't want to pay to support it any more. Any public company's motivation(whether they are doing what's right or not) is money. To think otherwise is to be a fool. Send a thinker to college and tell him he can only attend certain classes and he'll find a way to listen in and think. I have no degree, only paid for two courses, but I've sat in on(not audited as I didn't do the work for the class just listened to lessons and lectures mostly) over a dozen covering things I wanted to learn. (My entrance exam score were in the top 1%, but I graduated in the bottom 1/4 of my class, I go to school for education not a degree because the system is flawed)

The term Hacker has a stigma associated with it. I also agree "code junkie" would be a better term("junkie" has a stigma also, but for many code can be an addiction :P, but not necessarily a bad one), or "knowledge seeker" or "knowledge tester". It's about the challenge.

"how many of the things I listed in my previous post require any development?"
Piracy takes reverse engineering of what was meant to make it secure which is development done in reverse before any development of tools, etc... can be done, but in my opinion it's part of the development process as is researching for making a new game without a single line of code written.

Also on the topic of "development", I'm am the current project lead for DaedalusX64(N64 Emu) on the PSP since Strmnnrmn has been mostly away from it due to being busy with other stuff in life(been busy myself so other devs have done far more work on it lately). You likely already know this since you talked about VSH and TN-D. Our software has been in "development" since 2001 (on the PC by Strmnnrmn which I'm working to bring it back to as well) and I joined the project in 2008. Console emulators can and do take serious development. In our case it has been over 10 years and over a dozen coders from every continent but Antarctica ranging in age from 13 to over 40, and that's only AFAIK.

BTW, I put development in quotes as I'd like to know your definition of that. Writing code? Something else? Something more? (My equivalent would be "Digital Engineer" as sometimes creating something new requires you understand how something works to start with which implies engineering.)

April 15, 2011 at 10:15 AM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@Bobby West I agree, Sony gives the most concessions to the hard core gamer, especially with a free online service that is equivalent to Xbox Live's (and based on my experience, the PSN has had a faster, more secure connection as well(360 via ethernet cable, ps3 over wifi). Especially since when you look at first party games, Microsoft's games are primarily casual now, while Sony is churning out 'hardcore' games that are rated teen which opens up a broader audience.

To all else, I compare a video game console to the Mac OS, its more closed off and specialized for certain functions. The music and movie industry uses Mac software for most of their creative aspects of their business. Really only the gaming and more business-based industries use Windows computers to create and manage accounts, etc. (though businesses are rapidly adopting the iPad for mobile management).

When buying a console, one should be aware that this is the circumstance, a closed off system that works well, will not require hardware upgrades each year to fully utilize certain pieces of software. I will not have to get a new, well anything to play something like Uncharted 3 or The Last Guardian this year, or more recently, I would not have to upgrade my PS3 for Crysis 2 like PC users had too.

April 15, 2011 at 11:37 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

One more thing, if Nintendo let's say asked to use use our code free of charge and offered to contribute back if they changed it(or not if some other agreement was worked out), we say,"Go for it we'd love to see something like that". A good example of how to use that? Add an N64 cartridge slot(or as an expansion module) to there systems and allow user to use there originally purchased games(not ROMs, but the original cart) with the system. Would you buy a console that supports Atari 2600, 5200, 7800, Coleco, NES, SNES, N64, etc... all-in-one even if you had to buy separate expansion modules(Like the N64 transfer pak for GBA)? I know I would and I buy more classic titles(I have bought a few on WiiWare for convenience of not breaking out my old systems, but not one PSN title and since the late PS2 era all my Sony products are "used"). I like owning the cart and have a collection of thousands of games I've acquired over my life (~300 Atari 2600, 30 5200, 10 7800, 500+ NES, ~100 each Genesis and SNES, 200+ PSX Discs, 100+ N64 carts, etc...) I'd love having a single console play them. I would buy it in a heartbeat, but ehh.. I'm a developer and a nostalgia fan.

April 15, 2011 at 11:49 AM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@Lucas - On your last statement, I agree with you fully. I understand the purchase of a closed system, just not closing it further after my purchase in a way that takes away from a promoted(even if limitedly so and not actually advertised, I searched and will concede that unless shown otherwise) feature. I can also however agree with opening a closed system to allow more functionality and do not believe that should be considered a criminal act. I also believe in the manufacturer's right to try and re-close the said system. When I damage your company go ahead and sue, but only if you didn't take something from me first(An extreme example: You rob my house and if the law won't give me recourse, I'll burn your business to the ground if I need to in order to get back what you stole(I work on principle with the Golden Rule at the top of the list, but modified to "Don't F*** with me, I won't F*** with you), but we're not at that point yet.)

April 15, 2011 at 12:17 PM  
Blogger GregoryRasputin said...

Kreationz ""It wasn't about a reaction, although your posts GregoryRasputin did show a certain level of immaturity(I don't care what he did on another site and he is no less guilty, but does it mean stoop to that level?).""

I have a habit of feeding trolls, though the guilt here is not my part, i left a comment, directed at GeoHot, only for some idiot to swear at me, i had finished with this topic only for you to drag me back into it >.<

April 15, 2011 at 12:34 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

I guess the moral is, "Don't feed the bears! err... Trolls!" Nah, just kidding but thanks for explaining you motivations.

April 15, 2011 at 1:50 PM  
Blogger Night Breed said...

@Paulwho said "No one will, because they don't have the balls to do what you did. I applaud your efforts. Don't listen to the haters.

I actually thought you handled it well. There was really no way you were going to get them to surrender. Justice is defiantly blind......but it has a price."

I love how your pompous ass can sit there and down people but I don't see you fucking doing it now do I? Why don't you quit talking shit and do it yourself instead of being an asshole? There are plenty of people in this world who will help out. That was seen by all the donations to geohot's paypal. So shut the fuck up or put your money where your mouth is.

Can't do that? I thought so, so keep your mouth shut.

April 15, 2011 at 1:52 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

You agreed with him? Then bash him for not doing it himself?

April 15, 2011 at 2:13 PM  
Blogger Night Breed said...

@lucas who said " I am very disappointed in how many of you are reacting to this case. Openly condemning a corporation for protecting their interests is simply deplorable, and then you treat this as a giant game. If you really believe that Sony swindled the legal system, then play by the rules in return, for two wrongs do not make a right. Also, if you really want to justify yourself, show us these otherOS advertisements, for as far as I am concerned, it was a feature that just happened to be there, but never advertised by Sony. It is a feature for a minority, so it is rather easy to understand why they would not grandstand the feature, but still, if they did not advertise it, half your argument is gone.
And for everyone that claims they do not have anything, you are proving those that oppose George by showing yourselves as people with nothing to lose, and in turn, arrogance.
Please see the reality, Sony won, the only way for George to have won was if he went to court and the judge ruled in his favor. Sony settling shows maturity and rationality, and their distaste for George's hack shows foresight. All George released were angry messages that reminded me of Malcolm X speeches, irrational and petty, without anything to believe in but violence. His side was so thoroughly dramatized that it appeared as nothing but a poor joke, especially with a certain youtube video.
Internet speech does not work in the real world and you proved that to great extent with this case. If you want true support, you have should have appealed to the masses, not exclusively with your peers in a forum manner.
People claim you as strong, but you were forced into a lawsuit, and then gave in, on your website you even ask "Is Sony willing to settle?" You were running away from the start, you never truly understood what the law dictates.
Create something from nothing, and you will understand the significance of the laws you despise."

Your a fucking idiot plain and simple. They weren't acting out of their own interests or protecting their IP. They were being spiteful. Answer this question if your so all fucking knowing, if sony are really protecting their interests why are they suing Graf for giving linux back to us? He isn't hacking GameOS to allow piracy or anything like that, he's giving us back a feature they removed from us that we paid for.

Your so narrow minded it's infuriating.
They did actually advertise OtherOS you need to do the research before you ignorantly open your fucking mouth.

@Everyone Why do you people praise Geohot so much when Graf is the real hero? I don't see anyone complimenting graf, or really sticking up for him when he keeps getting knocked down and is still fighting the good fight. Geohot released one thing that was basically ripped from Fail's methods. Graf has given us so much that he has done himself, and he keeps getting his stuff taken from him but he is still releasing things!

I love how people can praise geohot but they don't talk about graf!

You want to admire a true hero in this scene? ADMIRE GRAF! He's the hero! Geohot is a fucking pussy who took donations and than backed out at the last minute. He had plenty of money to keep going but he pussied out! He's fucking scum in my book, Graf is the real hero.

April 15, 2011 at 2:32 PM  
Blogger Night Breed said...

@Kreationz said... UM my words start with this sentence. I did not agree with him at all.

Here is where my sentence starts "I love how your pompous ass can sit there and down people but I don't see you fucking doing it now do I? Why don't you quit talking shit and do it yourself instead of being an asshole? There are plenty of people in this world who will help out. That was seen by all the donations to geohot's paypal. So shut the fuck up or put your money where your mouth is."

Notice the quotation marks on my original post, those are his words hence the quotation marks. Come on now, I know you are smarter than that.

April 15, 2011 at 2:46 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

Pual - "No one will, because they don't have the balls to do what you did. I applaud your efforts. Don't listen to the haters."

Night Breed - "Why don't you quit talking shit and do it yourself instead of being an asshole?"

Personally, I didn't see shit talking just a flame aimed at "haters", mostly like yourself who turned on GeoHot when he settled without knowing any of the "confidential" details.

My opinion:
GeoHot - He did what he could, but to go further would have hurt the greater cause so he backed down. I applaud the effort.
Graf - Guys got serious balls, but needs better legal counsel. I applaud the actions and keeping his word even to the detriment of his own case, but that wasn't the smartest move (unless he wins in which case the current TRO's against him will mean nothing).
Anonymous - Nice effort, but going about it the wrong way... (Digital terrorism isn't the answer to this problem) The switch from acts to boycotts is commendable and shows they are dynamic however.
The underground portion of the PS3 hacking community - I applaud your work and understand if you don't want to get involved legally for whatever reason.
Myself - I don't personally have the resources, nor do I have the proper legal grounds (fruit of a poisoned tree so to speak) to do anything legal wise myself, but I will continue to vote through my wallet and code.

April 15, 2011 at 3:22 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@Lucas God, you're wrong.

"I am very disappointed in how many of you are reacting to this case. Openly condemning a corporation for protecting their interests is simply deplorable, and then you treat this as a giant game. If you really believe that Sony swindled the legal system, then play by the rules in return, for two wrongs do not make a right."

bzzt, no, stop right here. It's not so much that Sony "swindled" anyone; you aren't seeing what corporations are doing (and what Sony *HAS DONE*) in the legal system for what it truly is. You see, in our legal system, anyone can sue anyone for any reason; that means anyone can be in question for damn near anything at any time, but there will have to be a fight out in court. Litigation requires resources, like money and lawyers, and a sustained influx and upkeep of both -- that is, you can't keep fighting if you run out of money because the lawyers will go away. Now, compare the capital a corporation like Sony has vs. the resources that might be available to the average working-class, we'll say $30,000-50,000 a year citizen. Sony can *afford* to tie up the legal system, and they have enough resources to ensure their opponent can also run out of resources. (I believe -- but could be wrong -- that this is precisely the reason the class action lawsuit process exists, but I don't think you can defend as a class.)

Whether geohot was right or not, even if he took the courts all the way to the end and WON, Sony could have tied the whole thing up in appeals and overall resource drainage for him to the point where even if he did win, the damage has been done. The justice system is not as idealized as you seem to think it is.

"Also, if you really want to justify yourself, show us these otherOS advertisements, for as far as I am concerned, it was a feature that just happened to be there, but never advertised by Sony. It is a feature for a minority, so it is rather easy to understand why they would not grandstand the feature, but still, if they did not advertise it, half your argument is gone."

You were already shown the proof of advertisement; but, to be clear, even if not advertised on the packaging, it was certainly available within the software.

In the simplest of possible terms: if I sell you a box that does internet, e-mail, games, music and movies, what right do I have to retroactively take away the internet or the e-mail? If I sell it to five hundred people and 400 of them don't use those, do I still not have that right? This is essentially what Sony has done; it doesn't matter if a minority of people were using it, especially because it sets the precedent that it's totally okay to remove features you once promised and made available.


"Please see the reality, Sony won, the only way for George to have won was if he went to court and the judge ruled in his favor. Sony settling shows maturity and rationality, and their distaste for George's hack shows foresight."

As already shown, legal battles can be won/settled just to end what could potentially turn into an ugly, ugly war of attrition. Sony settling may show maturity -- they could easily also have just destroyed the guy whether he was right or not -- but the problem is that their original act in suing him was purely punitive, deliberately trying to make an example of him in an attempt to stifle further creativity and extension of property that was legally purchased from them; property ownership which, quite frankly, transferred from their hands to the purchaser's.

April 15, 2011 at 5:44 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@Lucas

"All George released were angry messages that reminded me of Malcolm X speeches, irrational and petty, without anything to believe in but violence. His side was so thoroughly dramatized that it appeared as nothing but a poor joke, especially with a certain youtube video."

One man's terrorist is another man's revolutionary, I guess; I always figure those messages as being in the "Anyone who would trade liberty for security deserves neither" kind of vein. Sometimes it takes powerful language to get a very critical point across. The worst part is he wasn't advocating violence. At least, not physical violence; the non-physical violence was actually inflicted on him first anyway.

"Internet speech does not work in the real world and you proved that to great extent with this case. If you want true support, you have should have appealed to the masses, not exclusively with your peers in a forum manner."

He appealed on his website. I don't have his other accounts otherwise I could tell you he probably appealed to the masses there too. There's only so much you can do to get into a public forum over the voices of the masses as it is.

"People claim you as strong, but you were forced into a lawsuit, and then gave in, on your website you even ask "Is Sony willing to settle?" You were running away from the start, you never truly understood what the law dictates.
Create something from nothing, and you will understand the significance of the laws you despise."

Sir, I have programmed for no less than seven years, reading Slashdot, running Linux, and regularly growing irritated at how closed every device on the market is becoming. I understand well how powerful so many of these devices actually are, and it pains me seeing a company like Sony not only hobble their device from the outset, but harming people trying to fix what they broke, or make it better. Sony's track record indicates a history of abusing the customer who thinks beyond the box that Sony wants to put them in; hell, Sony's track record indicates a history of abusing customers who *don't*, remember that rootkit fiasco?

tl;dr you don't have to be right to win at court in our justice system

April 15, 2011 at 5:45 PM  
Blogger FxChiP said...

@Lucas

You said:

"To all else, I compare a video game console to the Mac OS, its more closed off and specialized for certain functions. The music and movie industry uses Mac software for most of their creative aspects of their business. Really only the gaming and more business-based industries use Windows computers to create and manage accounts, etc. (though businesses are rapidly adopting the iPad for mobile management)."

Actually, Mac OS X is more open than Windows; you can modify its kernel and many of the drivers, and many people do for Hackintoshes and the like. Macs are actually a lot more open than the PS3! iDevices aren't -- but Apple isn't suing jailbreakers (and I'm not sure they can if they wanted to) like Sony has.

"When buying a console, one should be aware that this is the circumstance, a closed off system that works well, will not require hardware upgrades each year to fully utilize certain pieces of software. I will not have to get a new, well anything to play something like Uncharted 3 or The Last Guardian this year, or more recently, I would not have to upgrade my PS3 for Crysis 2 like PC users had too."

Actually, you might be playing those games at a decreased settings level compared to their counterparts running on open PCs. But hey, at least you get to play them, right?

But my question to you now is, why do you accept that Sony is going to cripple such a wonderful device and not allow you to use it fully? What part of "here, take this, but you can only do what we tell you to do with it" sounds beneficial to you? And do you really think it's a good thing that Sony decided to try to cause serious financial and social harm to someone who simply wanted to do more with what he was given and who wanted to share that with others?

Because I can tell you this, for a fact: if more people hacked their PS3 and did interesting things with them, the result could have been far greater than any mere video game any company could have produced.

April 15, 2011 at 6:00 PM  
Blogger rzarza said...

la verdad desde chile te apoyo me gusta tu actitud liberal estoi dispuesto a ayudarte con dinero si sigue la senda de bajar los monopolios actualizando tus cfw se extraña

April 15, 2011 at 6:54 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

Ok, after multiple attempts to respond, my message is gone by the time i refresh the page. So, if this works, just saying, I am having problems in response.

April 15, 2011 at 7:05 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@Night Breed, as I have previously asked, and no one prevailed to, show me the advertisements, there are none. Graf was under investigation, they told him to give all of his materials based on court order, and he did not. I am sorry, but calling me narrow minded seems a tad dim witted when you are saying a massive corporation with multiple leaders sharing power over the company is acting out of spite.
Now, please read into this more before you decide to respond, try a source such as BBC, they are a lot less biased than tech websites and forums.
Additionally, please get a more thorough understanding of the concept of an argument that actually has meaning and purpose while you are hopefully attempting to extend your knowledge beyond your own nose. Issuing disparaging remarks against your opposition is never fruitful, or else Obama would have lost his presidency purely based on comments on the Fox News Network website.

April 15, 2011 at 7:11 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@FxChiP I just got the message above to go up from multiple hours ago. I appreciate the response, and have read some of the plausible fallacies of my argument. I will respond later, though I must say that I favor your manner of response by explaining why you believe I am mistaken. Though before I go elsewhere, if Sony can do all that litigation to put George in a rut, why did Apple not do that after the iPhone jailbreak?

April 15, 2011 at 7:12 PM  
Blogger Kreationz said...

@Lucas - A sidenote: On media rights, recent Joe Biden comments are very disconcerting.

April 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@FxChiP Can we compromise perhaps? It was foolish for George to release the authenticity codes, and to grandstand the hack, but Sony taking away a feature is sketchy to say the least.

Also, it was foolish to expect Sony to call him after releasing the authenticity code and ask for advice when the leader of the corporation are businessmen that went to college and were taught about hundreds of years of swindling. Releasing the code also nullified the chance of a job offer, they could no longer trust him after that.

If someone were to hack into the US Military and find a nuke authorization code, do you really thing the government would ask for advice on how to protect it, or knock that persons door down?

Sidenote:Sony has people with understandable accents when I call them about a problem, and are usually very good with support, so in my books, they have brilliant customer service.

April 17, 2011 at 6:03 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@FxChiP Oh, and Martin Luther King Jr (despite all the cheating he did on his wife) and Ghandi (despite his belief that all the Jews in Europe should have committed mass suicide in (what he believed as) opposition to Hitler) were Revolutionaries because they sought peace without violence. Now, this logic only goes to countries like France, USA, Great Britain, and so on, where peaceful demonstrations can occur safely, but I believe you understand what I am saying? A revolutionary brings change through hope and peace, and terrorists uses fear (eye for an eye we all fall down).

Also, there is a difference between a terrorist and a rebel, and rebels do not attack civilians, it kills the point of their anti-[insert powerful anything here] advocacy.

April 17, 2011 at 7:28 PM  
Blogger Lucas said...

@FxChiP After all the RRoD issues, an engineer holding back power (which requires energy, which causes heat) seems very welcoming to me. Mandatory fans, or more modern with computer, water coolant systems, can be rather irritating (especially if the water coolant system bursts).
PS3 Example: I got my PS3 at the end of December 2006, basically a month and half after launch, (an Insomniac game was to hard to resist, even though I already had a Wii and was addicted to Twilight Princess) and it was silent, the fan never ran, but then one day the Trophy update was released and that all changed. Sony had unlocked more of the PS3's power to compensate, and lo and behold the PS3 had to rely on the fan because the meter could actually go to the red now.
Moral of the story: Engineers do not like to release video game consoles that overheat, it looks bad on them. So, since Sony would not want to package an additional fan for each PS3, they blocked off some to prevent overheating. I know this sound kind of lame, but it is a reality of technology, and the fan changes with the trophy update demonstrated such.

April 17, 2011 at 7:36 PM  
Blogger richard said...

i don't believe in you anymore...Graf is the man.you sold out.you broke your promise...and now you try to save face??you disappoint me.

April 22, 2011 at 8:02 PM  
Blogger V3 said...

@Bryce
This is about Fame, Glory and Notoriety. That is why GeoHot does it. He wouldn't be so popular without the iPhone. Why not go after the 360 or Wii? They do similar SHIT to an extent. This isn't about Freedom and freeing the suppressed people. If I were to jailbreak my phone right now and get caught using personal hotspot even though I do not have the plan... my carrier has the right to give me the plan without warning (even though they tell you). Should I then go to GeoHot and ask for him to pay my bill? Instead of supporting the developing individual I decided to install their program for free on Installus? Should I then blame him for the reason behind why I'm not seeing anything from the check apple or google send me? Is he really thinking about us... yeah he gives us the process for free. But if shit goes down he will be the first to say "Has nothing to do with me. You decided to do that shit on your own and you are on your own."

This fiasco proves he is not willing to fight for the people. This was all for show. He couldn't back up anything he wrote or said on YouTube. This proves once and for all. Hackers like GeoHot are in it for themselves. Yeah they don't get any profits but they get all the things to feed their ego. If there is one thing about hackers they all have HUGE EGO's that need to be fed. It is suckers like you who constantly feed them not realizing they could care less about you, your lifestyle and any consequences you may face. If something goes down they won't accept responsibility. This proves that.

What I find hilarious throughout this whole process and people's comments. Is the amount of people who thought in the bottom of their heart. That GeoHot genuinely cared and had "the" people on his mind when he said Bring It to SCE.

Stop comparing this facade to a nation gaining it's independency. If there is one analogy it's the David v Goliath analogy. Other than that there is no comparison. You prove you don't even understand what is going on here.

April 23, 2011 at 3:34 AM  
Blogger liquidfox said...

I agree to some extent with @V3
Hackers do what they do many reasons, personal gains and ego are the main reasons. First you get something to do something it wasn't designed for. Then you tell other people to use and to show your skill. What is point in having a username GEOHOT when EVERYBODY WORLDWIDE knows exactly who it is, can wikipedia him, and google image the guy!
If it was really all about ego boosting, there are ways and methods to release patchs, homebrew & jailbreaking instructions anonymously. If you have the skills to crack what are meant to be unbreakable software, then you have the skills to distrabute your knowledge without giving Sony your id

I absolutely believe the ps3 has been hacked again, and will be in the future, but the real smart techies will keep it to small circles and operate without PR in mind.

I don't hate GeoHot, he did things 99.99% on earth couldn't/wouldn't I even applause him for taking the cases on and even fighting them for a while. I don't care he settled. He prob settled all is financial matters for most of his life, and can make sure his friends and family are looked after as well. I would have done the same. In return you just don't publicly do it again. After all the sueing and the stress of actually cracking the software...you'll prob welcome a rest anyway.

Will he stop tinkering? prob not.....personally I don't think he isn't happy unless he is testing his abilities.

Will he still help dev teams? prob....its the least he can do for all their help....at least privately help them.

The David v Goliath battle wont be a public one. It will be a cold war, under wraps, in bedrooms peppered across the globe by small prob 1 man/gal armies. Thats like inventing the enigma code then telling the world how awesome it is and how it all works. As I say, the true geniuses do it and tell nobody!

April 27, 2011 at 9:21 AM  
Blogger kavin hill said...

Most people that play the ps3 only care about playing games on the console.
Most of them dont care about their rights. As long as they have their precious call of duty theyre happy.
Attacking sonys psn networks, making hacked game lobbys, and making their experience playing their console terrible is no better than what sony has done.
its just gonna make the average gamer hate the hacking community.tantrik

October 18, 2011 at 2:38 AM  
Blogger {KP}KRiiPTik_PwN{KP} said...

i would love to, please help me out, ive been trying many things and at the moment i said fuck sony and i dont even play ps3 cuz what they did to u. btw geohot add me on skype..... guitarwolfy99, so we can talk further about this

March 31, 2012 at 9:05 AM  
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May 8, 2012 at 11:27 PM  

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